Bel Canto High End USB to SPDIF converter, anyone?
Feb 7, 2009 at 6:38 AM Post #76 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lornecherry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
audioengr ....Steve:



Steve, you mention upgrading the caps for $100 ...where do I get the caps from? and is it easy to do. (I assume that's it's just a quick solder in and I don't have to deal with circuit boards, etc.)

For the $300 this may be an impulse buy, so I might spring for this and see just how good $300 can sound.



I'm going to share some trade secrets here for you:

3-4uFd V-cap oil caps bypassed with Sonicap Platinums .22uFd (in parallel)

These are big, so you wil need to wire them outside the DAC. These are the ultimate, so they are more like $200

V-Caps:
V-Cap Oil Capacitors

Sonicap Platinum:
Sonicap Platinum

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
Feb 7, 2009 at 6:47 AM Post #77 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by spraggih /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Update

Here are my settings via Audio MIDI Setup. Looks like there is no way to change the output settings
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture4ih1.png



Yes there is - where it says "Properties for built in microphone" just below system settings, click on the drop down with "built-in Microphone" and more choices will be there, including the output you want to adjust. Select the output you want to change, and it's properties will be displayed below.
 
Feb 7, 2009 at 6:52 AM Post #78 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lornecherry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
dmashta, mine's a MK1, (the Mark II is supposed to be better with the accompanying Chord transport)


Chord flashes MK1 firmware to accept 176.4 from Blue Transport. Mine is upgraded this way by ex-owner, I don't have matching transport though, but the instruction says it takes one channel over bnc and another one over aes/ebu, they work normal otherwise.
 
Feb 14, 2009 at 4:48 PM Post #79 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes there is - where it says "Properties for built in microphone" just below system settings, click on the drop down with "built-in Microphone" and more choices will be there, including the output you want to adjust. Select the output you want to change, and it's properties will be displayed below.


You're right. I clicked on output properties. Good news -- it was set to

Source: Digital Out

Format: 44100.0 Hz 2ch-16bit

The Channel, Volume, Value, db and Mute settings were all disabled.


Bad news -- since it was set that means I am receiving bit perfect. Right?
 
Feb 15, 2009 at 1:17 AM Post #80 of 112
Steve, thanks for the link to V-Caps ...intriguing site indeed. I read through the cap review, the links to Bottlehead and their projects .... and am surprised at difference good caps can make.

Despite 30+ years in this hobby, (admittedly I'm more of a marketing guy then DIYer), I'm continually learning a lot every day. It's nice to know the science behind the lingo and more importantly, what you actually hear.

It will be interesting to put a properly modded Valab up against the Chord, once the incoming jitter is controlled. I'll have to design a Shanling look-alike case so that my harshest critic will be appeased (harshest critic= wife) - Lorne
 
Feb 19, 2009 at 7:11 PM Post #81 of 112
Well I just ordered a usb link. I contacted Bel Canto inquiring about the usb link for my situation, which is lossless files from redbook cd's ( no Hi-def stuff) and the occasional mp3, from my macbook pro to a dac3 via usb. I asked if the implementation of the spdif input was that much better then the usb input of the dac3 to warrant the cost, keeping in mind I am not going to be listening to any 24/96 music.

John Stronzer said,
"It absolutely is better than the internal USB-EVERYTHING sounds better from the computer when going through the USB Link-16/44.1, MP3, AAC etc...

John

TTVJ had one left and a 30day return policy, so not much to loose. I will post back if I decide to keep it. It is hard for me to believe it would do nothing to the sound though, they wouldn't sell any. And maybe they haven't.
 
Feb 19, 2009 at 8:58 PM Post #83 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by Headphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This looks like an interesting product, but the price seems really high for what should be a simple feature. Are there any alternatives for getting bit-perfect 24/96 SPDIF output via USB, without proprietary drivers?


Neither the BelCanto device or the Empirical Audio devices require a custom driver. These use the CEntrance USB firmware.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
Feb 25, 2009 at 9:38 AM Post #86 of 112
I have decided to keep the usb link, actually I decided this in the first 10 mins, but I have been procrastinating this post because I am lazy and hate typing. I am going to keep this short. John Stronczer is right, everything sounds better, and mp3's are listenable now.
I played my "test" playlist, which is a bunch of songs I have heard thousands of times at least. Each has a specifically notable quality, ie. chimes, deep bass note, background noises, breathing etc. I don't usually listen through the whole song, but sometimes I get caught up. I am very, very familiar with these songs. As I played "test" I took notes, at the end I had nine pages of sticky notes, with many repetitious comments.
Most noticeably was deeper more defined bass, the tracks with deep bass had many more layers and were much more guttural, not a subtle difference.
Secondly there was more detail and extension ( I guess that's kind of the same thing?) in the highs, on tracks where the performers are talking and/or breathing, supposedly off mic, I could here much more of their talking and breathing. On a Sonny Rollins track, I used to think he was just blowing quieter at certain parts of the song, now I could tell he was leaning back/ away from the mic, and to his left!
By the third song, I started to notice the presentation was moved forward a bit as the vocals on the first few songs were closer, more full and had more in room presence, but as the playlist progressed, I noticed some instruments to be placed further back in the soundstage. On one track that I have heard at least 1000 times, the trumpets sounded like they were about 6-10 back from where they were normally in the illusionary soundstage, and 12 inches to the left on the back wall in the real world, considering my speakers are only 8 feet apart that's a pretty big improvement. So , deeper and wider soundstage. That's good right? Also please note that this listening was done in a speakers set-up, not with headphones. Speakers are generally my preference for listening, but I am also waiting on tubes for my headphone amp right now.
There was also more detail in the midrange with vocals sounding more involving and breathy, there was more air around the voices, a more natural tone and improved decay, also the timbre was better for violins and piano. Violins sounded like wood, and the piano sounded like a piano. I have three violin players in the family and two cello players, I played piano for a while, now guitar, my mom and sister still play piano, I think my sister finished the royal conservatory, anyways, my point is that I have been around these instruments a lot, and for a long time, and on some of the well recorded tracks it sounded just right. Very real.
Before the link, I noticed at higher levels sometimes things could sound a bit stressed on certain recordings, as I have a relatively new, lowish powered tube amp, I alway thought that was just a limitation of the amplification, but with the link in the chain, it was basically gone. I use a close mic'd violin track, and trumpet and drum tracks, and a certain vocal track for this test, and a human whistle track, they were much, much smoother at the higher volume levels. no etch.
Another thing I noticed, and this one may be a bit harder to articulate, was that all the sounds in a given track seemed much more coherent with the link, the separation and air and depth of each instrument was still there, but they seemed to bounce off each other a bit, not smear together, but it was like the mic was picking up the directional change of the sound bouncing off of, or going around the other instruments, the sounds of one instrument playing off the sounds from another. For example, on one song in particular the sound from the guitar would come from the right side of the stage and then I could hear the sound of the pick coming from the left side, and I could never really figure out what was happening, it didn't quite fit together, coherently.....maybe the it was improved timing or prat ( never really understood that term ), maybe improved timing, but I have heard this song many , many times, and when I listened to it the first time with the link, I let out a big ahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, now I get it, and they were one in the same, and I lit a single candle.

I don't know how much credit to give the usb link and how much to give the spdif implementation on the dac3, but overall everything had a more real life sound to it, a warmer more natural tone, but more detailed at the same time. The instruments seemed to take up more volume/3 dimensional space on the soundstage, music filled the room more and was bigger, more encapsulating.
The last thing I would like to note is that I can return this, I have about 25 more days to play with it. I am not going to. I would pay more for it. While I was quite happy with the sound from the usb input of the dac3, I could never go back, but that's how this hobby is isn't it. If you are in the same situation I was in, playing music from your computer to a dac3 via the usb, get one of these. The differences may not be as noticeable with another dac, with a different usb implementation, but they could also be more drastic.
I'm going to bed now.

Macbook pro
Bel Canto Dac3
Bel Canto USB Link
Jolida 502brc
Spendor sp 1/2e speakers.
 
Feb 25, 2009 at 4:00 PM Post #88 of 112
x2 on the write-up. Very informational.

I think the biggest point is this
Quote:

I don't know how much credit to give the usb link and how much to give the spdif implementation on the dac3, but overall everything had a more real life sound to it, a warmer more natural tone, but more detailed at the same time. The instruments seemed to take up more volume/3 dimensional space on the soundstage, music filled the room more and was bigger, more encapsulating.


When I owned the DAC3 I flipped between USB and SPDIF inputs. I found both to be a little harsh at times (especially on high end sustained notes). Harsh in the sense of still sounds good but it grabbed my attention versus allowing me to just feel the music.

Then I switched to a Chord DAC64 but I added in another variable almost immediately-- the original Freeway (modded Transit) and there was no harshness. Was it the DAC64's implementation of SPDIF or was it the transport???

Or who cares -- got the sound I wanted. But now I have another new variable-- a Mac (before I was PC)-- and it seems some of the harshness has returned but this time with the DAC64. Not as often with the DAC64-- not as much -- not as consistently -- but it was present.

So I assume the transport matters.

I do not understand any of the following:
  1. Jitter (is it real or not)
  2. Upgraded components
  3. Dirty USB or
  4. Why we have to pay $500 or $150 (Trends transport) after shelling out mega dough for an external DAC
But I am almost certain they do a better job for the music. I sold my original Freeway because I wanted to fund another purchase and I assumed the bit perfect Mac would be fine.

Here's my real question based on your review and my experiences: Once you have a high-end transport does the external DAC matter anymore?

I wonder if an inexpensive external DAC would do as well as an expensive one with a high-end transport? What if we could all buy $200 DACs and send the money on a transport and still save mega-buxks?
 
Feb 25, 2009 at 6:51 PM Post #89 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimless1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I wonder if the results will be the same with headphones?


It has been my experience that even with top quality headphones and amplification, there are many audiophile traits in music that are far less noticeable compared to speakers. I don't think I would have noticed the width and depth of the soundstage because with headphones the soundstage seems more focused into a much smaller area, and I have owned the gs-1000 and the jvc-dx1000, 2 headphones known for their great soundstage. The same thing with bass, both of those headphones are known to have great bass, and I owned the dt770, and d5000, but none of them ever gave me that deep guttural feeling in the bass notes, it is a different experience, and I don't know if I would have noticed the improvements, especially with the headphones I have now, which are much leaner in the bass then the others I mentioned. I would probably notice the improved details, air and maybe the tone and timbre improvements I mentioned? Headphones are great for that kind of stuff. I don't have my dac3 hooked up to my headphone amp right now as it is at the other end of the room, but if I ever get around to trying it out with headphones I'll let you know.

And, I have always liked the sound of the dac3, and the usb link, in my set-up just made it better in every way. I have used many words to describe the dac3, but "harsh" has never been one of them, my only suggestion is maybe your ic's or power supply? I did have the dac3 running through a power conditioner for a while and found the sound to be a bit thinner, or constricted, but still not harsh, maybe it was your midi settings? or your amplifier, I have owned the dac3 through 4 amplifier changes, and 3 speaker changes and I have never experienced that.
 
Feb 25, 2009 at 8:29 PM Post #90 of 112
Quote:

And, I have always liked the sound of the dac3, and the usb link, in my set-up just made it better in every way. I have used many words to describe the dac3, but "harsh" has never been one of them, my only suggestion is maybe your ic's or power supply? I did have the dac3 running through a power conditioner for a while and found the sound to be a bit thinner, or constricted, but still not harsh, maybe it was your midi settings? or your amplifier, I have owned the dac3 through 4 amplifier changes, and 3 speaker changes and I have never experienced that.


I don't know -- but thinner and constricted at higher frequencies (I think) would sound harsh to me. The only good explanation is the DAC because the other variables (amp, computer, songs) were the same. Of course electricity is a variable and fiddling with MIDI settings is a variable-- but given my concern I know I tested leaving all variables equal.

Maybe the best word is certain treble elements sounded "digital", un-smooth. Which is very unlike reviews of the DAC3 but I did taste of its smoothness and goodness -- it was just at times there was the digititis. Also not sure if you face this - be interesting to get your point of view-- I found leaving the DAC3's volume at 100 (per Bel Canto's suggestion) given I had a volume control on my amp was not as good as leaving at 77 or so and using the amp to dial up/down the volume.
 

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