[JahJahBinks]

Just review just came out a few days ago, enjoy!

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bcddac3/dac3.html

 

[Ruppin]

I had been looking forward to this review for some time, and I must say that I am dissapointed. I'm not in the mood to go into every detail, so I'll simply list a few things that weren't covered but should have been.

1) The reviewer is not very familiar with computer based audio. He is not at all familiar with Apple computers (which tend to have built in optical outs, use airport express-also with built in optical outs, and to have been designed with music server use in mind). I don't know about you folks, but I figure the number one use for a standalone DAC is computer based audio.

2) The reviewer really doesn't compare the various connection options. Is Toslink better than USB? What is best with this unit.

3) The reviewer talks about his Bel Canto DAC2, but nothing else on the market. No comparisons.

4) Same as 1. I don't need a review with a "vintage" windows machine. Tell me why this one will work better on an ethernet distributed system, with toslink, or USB. Tell me if its worth a retail price of 2.5times a Benchmark or a Lavry. And, with all due respect, don't compare s/pdif from a CD transport to USB unless you also compare it to toslink. Use a decent computer and uncompressed or lossless music.

5) This review tells the reader little. I'm not criticizing the DAC. I have one, and sometimes even think it is pretty decent. I also think it may be way overpriced, should offer control of upsampling, and should come with a better manual.The people at Bel Canto should be able to do better in describing how to get the most from computer based sources than refer to ASIO drivers from a company that can't even tell me if their drivers run with the current line of Apple Computers.

Sorry for the rant but it always seems to me that anything relating to computer based sources gets downplayed. CD players are a transport and a DAC. Hate to spoil the market, all ye sellers, but there are many, far more knowledgeable than myself, who wonder if all we need are the DACs. I'd sure like to be able to get better information.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruppin /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1) The reviewer is not very familiar with computer based audio. He is not at all familiar with Apple computers (which tend to have built in optical outs, use airport express-also with built in optical outs, and to have been designed with music server use in mind). I don't know about you folks, but I figure the number one use for a standalone DAC is computer based audio. 3) The reviewer talks about his Bel Canto DAC2, but nothing else on the market. No comparisons.

LOL. I agree, but this is typical of "pro" reviews of DAC's with USB input. This is why I was so impressed by the new 6Moons review by Stephen Marsh of the Empirical Audio PC audio gear. An excellent work that covers all the grounds.

After reading the DAC3 review, I still have no idea if DAC3 USB input even supports ASIO. I have yet to hear of anyone who successfully have used Foobar with ASIO, and I would love to know if even ASIO4ALL or the USB-ASIO driver works with DAC3.

Basically, the review seems to say DAC2 and DAC3 are essentially in similar performance leagues with DAC2 having a warmer presentation and DAC3 a bit more resolution. So why would anyone buy the DAC3 for much more money?

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL. I agree, but this is typical of "pro" reviews of DAC's with USB input. This is why I was so impressed by the new 6Moons review by Stephen Marsh of the Empirical Audio PC audio gear. An excellent work that covers all the grounds. After reading the DAC3 review, I still have no idea if DAC3 USB input even supports ASIO. I have yet to hear of anyone who successfully have used Foobar with ASIO, and I would love to know if even ASIO4ALL or the USB-ASIO driver works with DAC3. Basically, the review seems to say DAC2 and DAC3 are essentially in similar performance leagues with DAC2 having a warmer presentation and DAC3 a bit more resolution. So why would anyone buy the DAC3 for much more money?

Still can't believe it cost 2,500.. The BC2 was 1,300. & from the reviwers perspective, the SQ was pretty equal, albiet, a bit different in the presentation. I'd still like to have one though..

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

I posted my own thoughts on the DAC3 a little while ago.
Yep, it does sound very similar to the DAC2 that I own and took along for the dem.
As Ruppin rightly states, as purely a DAC, it's hard to justify the price increase.

Having said that, it does have the ability to act as a digital pre-amp, thus removing the need for buying say a Pre3, assuming you have digital only sources. That's nearly enough benefit to justify the cost, as I've heard a comparison between running a DAC3 directly into a pair of A1000 refs and via a Pre3. There's not much in it.

Again, you're right Ruppin about the info on using it with a PC/Mac. Just aswell we don't have to pay to read the review. Let us know how you get on with your own when linked to a PC.
I'll be trying out a Squeezebox3 shortly into my DAC2. I get the impression that it won't be as good as using my dedicated Cd transport, but I'll be able to tell you more in a month (waiting until I've ripped my whole CD collection to FLAC).

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Thirdly a good driver, the mechanism that interfaces with the DAC. Again the standard Windows driver is not quite up to scratch. After some investigation at the informative Bel Canto website and the assistance of a computer-savvy audiophile friend, it was established that the audio player software should be from Foobar, a free downloadable program superior to the Windows player. Unfortunately based on my laptop's elderly vintage, I was stuck with the Windows driver.

I don't understand this part of the article.

I used the Ploytec USB-ASIO driver with the CEC DA53. There are Windows 98/ME/2000/XP versions as well as Mac OS9 and OSX. A trial version is available for download.

What kind of "elderly vintage" laptop, running what OS (Linux?), could the reviewer have that prevents the use of foobar with the USB-ASIO driver, assuming the DAC3 supports the USB-ASIO driver?

 

[J-Pak]

I agree with most of what Ruppin said. It didn't tell me much about the DAC3 at all...and read pretty much like every other 6moons review.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with most of what Ruppin said. It didn't tell me much about the DAC3 at all...and read pretty much like every other 6moons review.

Ding dong,....we have a winnnna!

 

[granodemostasa]

i emailed the people at bel canto... they sent me a response full of directions about asio and burning music and the computer i needed... the reviewer should have asked them for this info.

 

[Elephas]

It really is disappointing for a professional review to be so uninformative. I can accept the flowery language, irrelevant metaphors and the taking off in different tangents (such as focusing on a power cord in an amp review) of many "pro" reviews, but this one doesn't provide much of anything, except an impression the review should've been done by someone else.

I think several members here could've done a much better review, especially Iron_Dreamer.

 

[JahJahBinks]

I have read a lot of 6moons reviews and I think most reviews can be condensed to one paragraph from ten.

 

[JayGee]

I think the DAC2 was way underpriced for the performance it has. From reading about it I kind of expected something just a little better than a Rega
Jupiter but the DAC2 really has true high end sound. The sound of instruments is natural, soundstage is probably the best I have heard (through speakers) and there is good pace and timing too.

I had a Naim CD5x and flatcap in my system for a while and tried a friends DAC2 on a lark. With a Planet 2000 transport the DAC2 was superior. This was not subtle, everyone of my friends who listened to it agreed. It made the Naim sound kind of coarse and grainy in comparison.

BTW we tried several transports, mostly really cheap CD players and DVD players and I was very surprised at how much influence the transport has on the DAC2. This was my first DAC experience and from what I read I expected the transport differences to be audible but not profound. The Planet 2000 was the best player we had with a digital out and I'm sure there must be transports that sound even better through the DAC2.

I agree that with the addition of the preamp the DAC3 is probably priced fairly. It really looks great.

Jaygee

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

To me the DAC2 was not as good sounding as the Benchmark DAC1, with less features to boot. So the $700 or so it goes for used these days might even seem a bit more than it's really worth. Other than being small/compact, I didn't really see the appeal.

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayGee /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the DAC2 was way underpriced for the performance it has. From reading about it I kind of expected something just a little better than a Rega Jupiter but the DAC2 really has true high end sound. The sound of instruments is natural, soundstage is probably the best I have heard (through speakers) and there is good pace and timing too. I had a Naim CD5x and flatcap in my system for a while and tried a friends DAC2 on a lark. With a Planet 2000 transport the DAC2 was superior. This was not subtle, everyone of my friends who listened to it agreed. It made the Naim sound kind of coarse and grainy in comparison. BTW we tried several transports, mostly really cheap CD players and DVD players and I was very surprised at how much influence the transport has on the DAC2. This was my first DAC experience and from what I read I expected the transport differences to be audible but not profound. The Planet 2000 was the best player we had with a digital out and I'm sure there must be transports that sound even better through the DAC2. I agree that with the addition of the preamp the DAC3 is probably priced fairly. It really looks great. Jaygee

I used to have a Bel Canto DAC2. At retail price of $1300 I wouldn't consider it underpriced, I would say it's overpriced. Not because it sounded bad, but because it was just a regular single ended DAC. It didn't have any other features other than serving as a digital to analog converter. But at $600-800 used I'd say that was a more acceptable price (to me).

And comparing the DA10 to the DAC2, the DA10 definitely outperforms it.

 

[Riboge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif After reading the DAC3 review, I still have no idea if DAC3 USB input even supports ASIO. I have yet to hear of anyone who successfully have used Foobar with ASIO, and I would love to know if even ASIO4ALL or the USB-ASIO driver works with DAC3.

I use the latest foobar with usb_asio to the dac3 without any problem. It worked right away and sounds great, .