[Pm@c]

So I normally listen to FLAC through my PC. Running a Xonar Essence STX + DT770 Pro's (getting a little aged, about 4.5 years now).
 
Anyways, thinking about picking up the new Dream Theater album A Dramatic Turn of Events in the Deluxe Collector's edition set. Comes with 180-gram vinyl. 
 
This would be my first ever vinyl album, but I am really thinking of converting to vinyl. 
 
Haven't really started to do any research, I am a total vinyl beginner, and this place has helped me a ton with choosing some good cans. 
 
So my question is, if I were to have a budget anywhere from $300 starting to say $600 or $700, what is a good setup to get my introduced to vinyl.
 
I say $300 because it will be my very first ever intro to vinyl, and I don't want to invest alot of money if its not something I want to stick with.
 
I assume you need a vinyl player and then an amp to feed the headphone. I did buy an amp about 4 years ago, can't quite recall the name but I know it was a smaller company that made it. I am thinking I will just go with all new everything, invest in a better amp as well.
 
Can anyone lead me in the right direction? Get me started off on the right foot?
 
Edit: I do want to get the most out of vinyl as possible without breaking the bank too much. Like pushing $1000 would be a little on the steep side for me. If I can get an amazing experience out of $700-$800, I'd be willing to go that route.

 

[detoxguy]

I don't have a ton of experience in vinyl but I picked up the Rega RP1 with a cambridge audio azur 540 phono amp and I absolutely love it so far. There is a bonus in that you can buy some upgrades (performance package, new 24v motor etc.) that are relatively affordable and will let you grow with the TT for a while. I run it to a MAD Ear+ HD, and from there out to an ASL pre-amp and mono blocks to my speakers. 
 
pretty fun

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

I second detoxguy's recommendation of the Rega RP1. It's a nice beginner TT that comes with a more than decent factory-installed Ortofon cartridge, meaning there should be no setup hassles for you (except for balancing the arm, which is pretty simple). $450 for table, arm and cartridge. I haven't tried the Cambridge 540p, but I have used the 640p and found it excellent for the price. They are frequently seen on Audiogon for $100. The NAD PP2 and Bellari VP130 are similarly priced options.
 
For about $600 shipped, you'd have a very nice entry-level system with a new TT (don't recommend going used until you get more comfortable with tables) and a good used phono section. I personally wouldn't go any cheaper than this, since a sub-par system will not let that 180g vinyl show what it really sounds like.

 

[Pm@c]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Looking into the Rega on ebay, can buy one for $445 US.
 
I do live in Canada however, and I imagine the duty fees on that thing would be 50-100 bucks.
 
Anyone know any places in Canada that would have it or any other TT?

 

[shipsupt]

If you find that this is stretching your budget another option to explore vinyl without breaking the bank is to go vintage.  There are some great vintage tables out there that can give you a taste at a fraction of the cost.  A much better option than a new cheapo table.  (Just to be clear, I am not putting the RP1 in that class, if you can swing that set up it's a good one).  Just throwing out another option as I am doing the same thing right now.  I wanted to be sure it wasn't just a FOTM for me... I ended up with a Sony PS-X7 table, a Shure M97xE cartridge, and my Pioneer SX-950 as my phono stage.  I am REALLY enjoying it and can say I'm officially into vinyl, again!
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Manyak]

Another great TT to start with is the Technics SL-1200, but you'd have to get it used.
 
For listening to Dream Theater (and most metal and rock), I think MC carts sound a lot better than MM ones - MM carts tend to have a mellow sound, while MC carts have more transparency and detail, better imaging, and less distortion. A great MC cart to start with is a Denon 103R - it's one of the best "bang for your buck" carts available. It's not exactly the cheapest cart out there, but it should still fit into your budget, and is quite a dramatic improvement over that Ortofon. The only catch is that it likes tonearms with lots of mass, and neither the RP1's nor the SL1200's stock tonearms fall under that category. The good news is that (at least on the Technics) all it takes is a $25 headshell to fix that problem.
 
And just a side note, but you should also watch out for vinyl that has been mastered from CD. The Back On Black and Simply Vinyl labels do this, for example. You end up with the same sound as your FLAC except now it goes snap,crackle, and pop.

 

[Pm@c]

Any suggestions on good preamps for either the RP1 or the SL-1200? I did a bit of research (will do more) but so far for a brand new price of $445, I am leaning towards the RP1.

 

[Manyak]

Quote:

Any suggestions on good preamps for either the RP1 or the SL-1200? I did a bit of research (will do more) but so far for a brand new price of $445, I am leaning towards the RP1.

When picking a preamp you don't need to worry about which turntable you have, only which cartridge. Each cartridge has a different output voltage and optimal load resistance, so you need a preamp with gain and loading levels to match.
 
If we use that Ortofon OM5e as an example (the one that's included with the RP1), it has a 4mV output and 47kOhm recommended load resistance. An example of a matching preamp would be the AT-PEQ3. Most vintage preamps should also match up well, and if you clean and/or rebuild one they usually end up sounding even better than modern ones that cost more (those were the big days of vinyl after all). If you go for a low-output MC cartridge like the 103R (0.25mV) you'll need something with more gain, or a step-up transformer to convert it for use with MM preamps. A Rotel RQ-97BX, for example, can switch between MM and MC cartridges with the push of a button. It's not that good stock, but it's pretty cheap and responds very well to a few cheap mods.

 

[Pm@c]

I hate to be a bother, but is there perhaps somewhere with a comprehensive breakdown of Vinyl Tech and what to look out for? Like for example, the differences between the 4mV and the 0.25mV? Like what exactly is the difference, as far as quality goes? Do I want lower? 
 
Basically, since I am coming in as an infant to this tech, I'd like to educate myself. I find if I can educate myself on a topic, I can usually make better decisions on the products I choose. 
 
That and if I'm gonna be dropping $800+ on vinyl setup, I want to be sure I am getting the most out of it. 
 
Also what the relation is as far as choosing the right cans. Should I think about getting a new pair of cans as well to go with this new setup? Something that might compliment it more than my DT770's? They are the 64 ohm version.
 
 

 

[Manyak]

The output voltage doesn't really determine the quality. In fact, the low voltage is harder to deal with because the system becomes more sensitive to interference over the RCA cable from TT to preamp (so you want to make that connection as short as possible). MC carts are more detailed because inside the cart itself, the magnets are fixed and the lower-mass pickup coil is moved around in that fixed field (instead of the other way around). An MM cart has more mass attached to the cantilever, so it's harder for it to respond to the grooves (especially in the higher frequencies) because it can't move back and forth as quickly.
 

 
Quote:

I hate to be a bother, but is there perhaps somewhere with a comprehensive breakdown of Vinyl Tech and what to look out for? Like for example, the differences between the 4mV and the 0.25mV? Like what exactly is the difference, as far as quality goes? Do I want lower? 
 
Basically, since I am coming in as an infant to this tech, I'd like to educate myself. I find if I can educate myself on a topic, I can usually make better decisions on the products I choose. 
 
That and if I'm gonna be dropping $800+ on vinyl setup, I want to be sure I am getting the most out of it. 
 
Also what the relation is as far as choosing the right cans. Should I think about getting a new pair of cans as well to go with this new setup? Something that might compliment it more than my DT770's? They are the 64 ohm version.
 
 

 

 

[Pm@c]

So a lower voltage MC cartridge is going to give me better frequency response but I need to make sure I keep my cable short to avoid interference?

 

[Manyak]

Yep - better frequency response, and better resolution. Virtually all high end carts are MC because of this. Of course there are exceptions depending on which two specific carts you're talking about, but in general that's how it goes.
 
You can get away with using a long cable though, it really depends on your environment and which cable you use. It's just not ideal. The upside is that cable impedence isn't much of an issue with low-output MCs, because the signal isn't strong enough for it to "care". Either way, the output of the preamp is standard line-level, so if you need a longer cable to reach your amp you can always do it from there.
 
For the money, I don't think you'll find anything that can outperform a Denon 103R as long as you don't mind replacing the headshell and/or adding weights to your arm. Even if you decide not to stick with vinyl, there's never a shortage of people who are willing to buy it from you. But if you do, and if you ever work up the courage to remove it's casing and run it nude or with a wooden body, it'll start to compete with carts that are double and even triple it's price.
 
Quote:

So a lower voltage MC cartridge is going to give me better frequency response but I need to make sure I keep my cable short to avoid interference?

 

 

[Pm@c]

So I went to a place nearby today and had a listen to the RP1. 
 
Now, that was my first ever time really listening to a vinyl record on something other than a crappy old record player my dad had.
 
There was a background clicking and popping, which I know comes with vinyl, thats just the way vinyl is, but is it something you can get used to?
 
There was alot more clarity to the stuff I was listening to, although it wasnt exactly music I listen to on a daily basis (some local Guitarist's stuff, a Police album, few other light rock stuff), but that background noise was pretty prominent.
 
Is it just a rough record? Do brand new vinyl LPs sound any better?
 
Just trying to decide if this is really something I want to drop $600+ into or not. I mean I could see myself kickin back and putting a vinyl on to listen to, but maybe not on a daily basis unless I could get used to that background noise.
 
Also, he had the stock needle on, so not sure if that makes a huge difference or not.
 
 

 

[Manyak]

The amount of pops you get depend on how worn and/or dirty the record is. On brand new records you won't get a single click or pop, and as long as you cherry-pick any used records and clean them well they shouldn't be too bad there either.
 
It also depends on the music too, if you listen to something really "loud" like Rock or Metal you won't hear them as much as if you listened to Classical or Trance.
 
Quote:

So I went to a place nearby today and had a listen to the RP1. 
 
Now, that was my first ever time really listening to a vinyl record on something other than a crappy old record player my dad had.
 
There was a background clicking and popping, which I know comes with vinyl, thats just the way vinyl is, but is it something you can get used to?
 
There was alot more clarity to the stuff I was listening to, although it wasnt exactly music I listen to on a daily basis (some local Guitarist's stuff, a Police album, few other light rock stuff), but that background noise was pretty prominent.
 
Is it just a rough record? Do brand new vinyl LPs sound any better?
 
Just trying to decide if this is really something I want to drop $600+ into or not. I mean I could see myself kickin back and putting a vinyl on to listen to, but maybe not on a daily basis unless I could get used to that background noise.
 
Also, he had the stock needle on, so not sure if that makes a huge difference or not.
 
 

 

 

[shipsupt]

I'm still new at this and working to get my system dead quiet as well.
 
I don't think you ever get rid of every pop/click, but with proper cleaning you can really reduce it to almost nothing.  I recently picked up a VPI 16.5 record cleaner after getting some recommendations here.  It does an amazing job reducing surface noise.  New vinyl is left with only the slightest surface noise in the "silence" between tracks.  Old vinyl hasn't become quite as quiet (I will keep working on them) but is remarkably better, and more dynamic too. You can probably reach similar results with good hand cleaning practices.
 
 
 
 
Quote:

So I went to a place nearby today and had a listen to the RP1. 
 
Now, that was my first ever time really listening to a vinyl record on something other than a crappy old record player my dad had.
 
There was a background clicking and popping, which I know comes with vinyl, thats just the way vinyl is, but is it something you can get used to?
 
There was alot more clarity to the stuff I was listening to, although it wasnt exactly music I listen to on a daily basis (some local Guitarist's stuff, a Police album, few other light rock stuff), but that background noise was pretty prominent.
 
Is it just a rough record? Do brand new vinyl LPs sound any better?
 
Just trying to decide if this is really something I want to drop $600+ into or not. I mean I could see myself kickin back and putting a vinyl on to listen to, but maybe not on a daily basis unless I could get used to that background noise.
 
Also, he had the stock needle on, so not sure if that makes a huge difference or not.