Beethoven Symphonies
Jun 4, 2008 at 10:15 PM Post #826 of 944
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes I ordered MacKerras/SCO CD set from Amazon sellers.
We have reivews by classics today and a very detailed one from music web (recording of the month 5/08):

Music Web

Classics Today



Oops - my bad! The Beethoven is not available from Linn Records, which sells the downloads (DRM free). You cannot obtain studio master quality downloads of the Beethoven symphonies which is too bad. The late Mozart symphonies as well as MacKerras' Requiem are available as studio master quality downloads from Linn. Btw, if you enjoyed the Dunedin Messiah, you may be interested in the Bach Matthew Passion from the same forces. That too is available in 3 download formats from Linn -- studio master (24bit 96kHz FLAC or WMA); CD quality (16bit 44.1kHz FLAC or WMA) or MP3 (320k 44.1kHz).
 
Jun 6, 2008 at 8:42 PM Post #827 of 944
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes I ordered MacKerras/SCO CD set from Amazon sellers.
We have reivews by classics today and a very detailed one from music web (recording of the month 5/08):

Music Web

Classics Today



I have found a 3rd very positive review of MacKerras/SCO from Fanfare magazine:
Fanfare

And a 4th very positive review from Music Web again:
Music Web II
 
Jun 7, 2008 at 8:07 PM Post #828 of 944
The Immerseel set came today ($14!!!), I'm happy to report that initial listens to the 3rd & 5th are very good. Will update more later.
 
Jun 7, 2008 at 9:39 PM Post #829 of 944
DarkAngel;4273917 said:
Keep the info coming in for those who are getting thier Immerseel sets, we need to hear your impressions.

Thanks to DA’s recommendation and Bunnyears’ noting that it was available for only $14, I received my Immerseel set last night. I’ve been listening to the 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9th and have been captivated by the energy of these performances. I did a brief check of my Zinman/Arte Nova 9th, 1st movement and as good as this set is, it seems “flat” relative to the Immerseel. For an HIP performance for me this captures all of the emotion and excitement of a big band performance. A very refreshing presentation of something that is so familiar to me. Packaging is nothing special but the booklet does a nice job of describing the thought behind these recordings. Lastly the sound is excellent, good spatial separation of instruments and excellent dynamics on my $$$ big rig. Highly recommended, and it was a steal for $14!

As a point of reference I also have the following sets: Abbado (DG 2000), Haiitink (LSO Live), Karajan (1963 on SACD),) Zinman (Arte Nova).
 
Jun 7, 2008 at 11:22 PM Post #830 of 944
Tyson & Dave
Do you guys share my impression that Immerseel 1-3 is weaker than the 4-9 symphonies? Performances seem to really step it up a notch strarting with 4, and I believe Bunny and I both like the symphony 4 & 5 CD best of the set.
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 2:13 AM Post #831 of 944
Haven't listened to 1 or 2, so no comment there yet. 3 I liked quite a bit, same with 5. Haven't listened to 6 or 8 yet either, but 7 was only pretty good for me, I listened to it through several times just to give myself time to adjust to the interpretation, but alas it simply wasn't grand/heroic sounding enough for my tastes. It came off more as a courtly dance, and less of a grand fanfare (my preference). No one has completely satisfied me in the 7th though, but I had high hopes that Immerseel might be the one. Next up is the 9th, and then the 8th after that.
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 6:49 AM Post #832 of 944
What box set of Beethoven's symphonies would you friendly chaps recommend to me, someone that has not yet entered the world of Beethoven (though I heard symphony No. 3, 5, 6 and 9). But what set would you say would fit the role of introducing me to Beethoven's symphonies? As some of you know I am big fan of Mahler and Shostakovich's symphonies/music, so maybe there is a certain conductor that gets the melodrama and emotions out of the scores and orchestras? Thank you very much for your insightful suggestions.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 9:01 AM Post #833 of 944
Top recommendations in complete sets for me would still be Zinman and lately Mackerras. I am a period instrument enthusiast but really can't wholeheartedly recommend any of the current sets (Bruggen, Hogwood, Norrington, Gardiner, Immerseel) as being better than either of these 2 conductors. Certainly Immerseel will seem very tame if you want drama, and he is currently the HIP top runner as far as I can hear. Well actually I like Norrington best still, but that would not be a popular choice around here.
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 5:02 PM Post #835 of 944
OK, listened to the rest of the Immerseel set now and have to concur that it's fairly lacking in drama, it's more genteel, regal approach to Beethoven on Period Instruments. Symphony 3 and 5 are the 2 best of the set in my opinion, with the rest being perfectly played but not passionate enough. Gardiner remains my top choice on PI and Szell on MI.
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 5:07 PM Post #836 of 944
Oh yes, and I put in an order for the Mackerras set.
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 5:50 PM Post #837 of 944
We barely have time to let the Immerseel settle in before moving on to MacKerras/SCO......but what is a collector to do

Yes Tyson i agree there is a noticeable difference in style overall between say Gardiner/Harnoncourt and Immerseel, the former sounding faster more forceful. In retrospect I am wondering if they lack some of the depth and nueance of Immerseel.......for instance I wonder if Gardiner were to record another LVB set today perhaps it would sound more like Immerseel?
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 8:10 PM Post #838 of 944
Maybe Gardiner would be more mellow now, but I'm glad he wasn't when he recorded his existing set, I love that forceful and propulsive view of Beethoven, it's also a big reason I love the Emerson's quartets so much. I really dislike the slow, ponderous approach to Beethoven, ala late Walter or Furtwangler and Klemperer or late Barenboim. Give me Szell, Gardiner, Toscanini, or Liebowitz any day instead.
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 8:43 PM Post #839 of 944
Quote:

Originally Posted by Facade19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What box set of Beethoven's symphonies would you friendly chaps recommend to me, someone that has not yet entered the world of Beethoven (though I heard symphony No. 3, 5, 6 and 9). But what set would you say would fit the role of introducing me to Beethoven's symphonies? As some of you know I am big fan of Mahler and Shostakovich's symphonies/music, so maybe there is a certain conductor that gets the melodrama and emotions out of the scores and orchestras? Thank you very much for your insightful suggestions.
smily_headphones1.gif



As you are a big fan of Mahler and Shostakovich, I imagine that you would enjoy "big band" Beethoven more than period instruments. I would also suggest a modern chamber orchestra if you wouldn't mind the lighter sounding ensemble. For easily available big-band Beethoven (not in order of preference):

Szell & Cleveland O - These are older recordings and you may find it cheaper to buy the individual symphony releases that have been remastered than the box set with the piano concertos - Columbia (Sony)
Note: That box set contains the piano concertos with Leon Fleisher, which are probably some of the greatest recordings of that repertoire.
Blomstedt & Staatskapelle Dresden - Brilliant Classics -- a must because it uses the SKD which has a particular sound because they have retained older instruments used by generations of their musicians. The world is now filled with generic orchestras which don't have a particular sound signature, so hearing the SKD in this music is extremely illuminating. There is not a clanker in this set and the singing in the 9th is particularly fine.
Zinman & Tonhalleorchester Zurich - Artenova
MacKerras & Royal Liverpool PO - Classics for Pleasure
Barenboim & Berliner Staatskapelle - Warner Classics - More romantic interpretations; broader tempos; heavily influenced by Furtwängler. These might appeal to you very much. Also excellent sq.
Karajan & Berliner Philharmoniker - DG - One of the most highly regarded cycles (1963). This has been released and re-released in various covers, in remastered stereo, sacd, and any way that Deutsche Grammophon could dream up to make it seem "newer." I think there's one at Amazon for about $12 or $13, and that's about what you should pay for these.
Gunter Wand & NDR-Sinfonieorchester - RCA - another great cycle that is very underrated. Prices on this are extremely good. I prefer this to Karajan any day of the week. Btw, it is a top recommendation by Gramophone magazine.

Incomplete, but well worth buying:

Vänskä & Minnesota SO (not complete) - BIS, By bar the best sound quality (SACD/hybrid with hd redbook layer). They are only lacking one more recording for the 1st and 7th symphonies. The 9th is a standout and should be in everyone's collection, as should their most recent recording of the 6th (Pastoral) which is often the symphony where so many conductors fail.

For the smaller ensemble symphonies, the only modern ones are the new MacKerras & the Scottish Chamber Orchestra or the Jarvi & Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie which isn't a complete cycle yet. Also incomplete is the Dausgaard & Swedish Chamber Orchestra Orebro cycle on Simax which may not be completed as both Dausgaard and the SCOO seem to have jumped labels. Those are extremely expensive unless you buy them on itunes (not itunes plus, so the sound is compressed). If you do download these, skip the 7th symphony which is not as fine as the others.

The other complete chamber orchestra cycle is the older set by Harnoncourt & the Chamber Orchestra of Europe which qualifies as a hybrid ensemble because they used hand-stopped horns (or perhaps modern horns that they then used hand stopping with) for greater "authenticity." Again, this is an older cycle so the sound quality won't be as good as the Jarvi or Dausgaard recordings. As far as I know, the sq for the new MacKerras has not received top marks either, so if you decide to opt for a complete chamber orchestra cycle, then sq should not be a factor.
 
Jun 8, 2008 at 8:46 PM Post #840 of 944
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Maybe Gardiner would be more mellow now, but I'm glad he wasn't when he recorded his existing set, I love that forceful and propulsive view of Beethoven, it's also a big reason I love the Emerson's quartets so much. I really dislike the slow, ponderous approach to Beethoven, ala late Walter or Furtwangler and Klemperer or late Barenboim. Give me Szell, Gardiner, Toscanini, or Liebowitz any day instead.


You should enjoy the Vänskä cycle if that is so. His tempos are very fleet, with great forward propulsion and dynamic range. At the same time, his tempos never seem rushed. I am finding that cycle more and more my favorite for modern big band Beethoven nowadays, especially in the fantastic 5.1 surround sound. I'm waiting for the last cd in the set (symphonies 1 & 7) and only hope that they are as fine as the others in the set.
 

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