Beethoven Symphonies

[BAwig05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sometimes it pays off, like getting the Boulez Ring back on CD. Other times: well, I didn't need another Solti M8.

Did anyone notice that ClassicsToday rated the "new" Mahler 8 lower overall this time around than the "Decca Legends" release? It lost one artistic and two sonic points, WHILE saying "Decca's latest remastering gives the recording the best sound it's had on CD."

Is this fair? I mean, yes, sonic standards are rising. but are we going to dowgrade Heifetz releases because Hahn. Ehnes, and Bell continue to mature? Doubtful.

What does this say about critics? A lot, I think.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAwig05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Did anyone notice that ClassicsToday rated the "new" Mahler 8 lower overall this time around than the "Decca Legends" release? It lost one artistic and two sonic points, WHILE saying "Decca's latest remastering gives the recording the best sound it's had on CD." Is this fair? I mean, yes, sonic standards are rising. but are we going to dowgrade Heifetz releases because Hahn. Ehnes, and Bell continue to mature? Doubtful. What does this say about critics? A lot, I think.

Reappraisal of older recordings is constant and to be expected. When the Solti was released it was among the best of what there was. Today we have more recordings in better sound quality, and the Solti doesn't compare as favorably to the new competition. That's also to be expected. Sometimes older doesn't mean better just as sometimes newer doesn't mean better. If critics kept referring to everything old as the benchmark, then there would be no incentive to record newer versions. As Lawrence Peter Berra once said, "I always thought that record would stand until it was broken." Well, you can say the same thing about reference recordings.

 

[seacard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Reappraisal of older recordings is constant and to be expected. When the Solti was released it was among the best of what there was. Today we have more recordings in better sound quality, and the Solti doesn't compare as favorably to the new competition. That's also to be expected. Sometimes older doesn't mean better just as sometimes newer doesn't mean better. If critics kept referring to everything old as the benchmark, then there would be no incentive to record newer versions. As Lawrence Peter Berra once said, "I always thought that record would stand until it was broken." Well, you can say the same thing about reference recordings.

Agree completely. In fact, I wish when Hurwitz reviews a new recording of, say, Beethoven 9th, he would go back and reevaluate older versions. I think it's hard for a consumer to go to classicstoday and see many versions of Beethoven's 9th with a perfect 10/10 rating. Part of the problem is that there are too many 10/10s being handed out, but the other part is when a "true" 10/10 comes along, I think it's important to reappraise some of the older recordings, esp. for sound.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAwig05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Did anyone notice that ClassicsToday rated the "new" Mahler 8 lower overall this time around than the "Decca Legends" release? It lost one artistic and two sonic points, WHILE saying "Decca's latest remastering gives the recording the best sound it's had on CD." Is this fair? I mean, yes, sonic standards are rising. but are we going to dowgrade Heifetz releases because Hahn. Ehnes, and Bell continue to mature? Doubtful.

In this case explanation is simple.....two different reviewers for each CD.
The older Decca Legends M8 done by DH 9/9 and newer release by Victor Car 8/7.

 

[seacard]

I really want to give a strong recommendation to the Beethoven recordings with Thomas Fey. So far, he's recorded Symphonies #1, 2, 4, and 6. I've been comparing them to the Vanska (only the 4 overlaps), Gardiner, and the new Dausgaard (yeah, I caved and bought a few from the series). As much as I love the Vanska and Gardiner, I think the Fey may be the best of the bunch so far. If you haven't tried either of these recordings, I hope you give the Symphonies 1 and 2 a chance. I know there are a lot of contenders out for the best period-influenced Beethoven (including Abbado, the new Haitink, Gardiner, and Zinman, Mackerras, and Harnoncourt, just to name a few) but I just can't imagine somebody not liking this CD.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really want to give a strong recommendation to the Beethoven recordings with Thomas Fey. So far, he's recorded Symphonies #1, 2, 4, and 6. I've been comparing them to the Vanska (only the 4 overlaps), Gardiner, and the new Dausgaard (yeah, I caved and bought a few from the series). As much as I love the Vanska and Gardiner, I think the Fey may be the best of the bunch so far. If you haven't tried either of these recordings, I hope you give the Symphonies 1 and 2 a chance. I know there are a lot of contenders out for the best period-influenced Beethoven (including Abbado, the new Haitink, Gardiner, and Zinman, Mackerras, and Harnoncourt, just to name a few) but I just can't imagine somebody not liking this CD.

As Fey is a protegé of Harnoncourt, you would expect great things from him. I'll have to pull those out again and compare them to the Dausgaard and Vänskä. I actually prefer his Beethoven to Harnoncourt's, find the Haydn equally good, but don't care for Fey's Mozart while Harnoncourt's is terrific. Ofcourse, Harnoncourt's recent Haydn is with the Concentus Musicus Wien, a period instrument orchestra while Fey's Heidelberger Sinfoniker is a hybrid orchestra.

I've just checked the Hänssler website to see if there's going to be more Beethoven released, and have found a recording of overtures that includes some Beethoven (along with other composers). More interestingly, he has 2 Haydn recordings about to be released: vol 7 and vol. 8.

 

[seacard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif As Fey is a protegé of Harnoncourt, you would expect great things from him. I'll have to pull those out again and compare them to the Dausgaard and Vänskä. I actually prefer his Beethoven to Harnoncourt's, find the Haydn equally good, but don't care for Fey's Mozart while Harnoncourt's is terrific. Ofcourse, Harnoncourt's recent Haydn is with the Concentus Musicus Wien, a period instrument orchestra while Fey's Heidelberger Sinfoniker is a hybrid orchestra. I've just checked the Hänssler website to see if there's going to be more Beethoven released, and have found a recording of overtures that includes some Beethoven (along with other composers). More interestingly, he has 2 Haydn recordings about to be released: vol 7 and vol. 8.

Unfortunately with the Fey/Haydn, I'm waiting for the box set (same as the Brautigam/Haydn). Those are actually the two box sets I'm most looking forward to. When you do give a good listen to Fey's Beethoven, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I've really fallen in love with them.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unfortunately with the Fey/Haydn, I'm waiting for the box set (same as the Brautigam/Haydn). Those are actually the two box sets I'm most looking forward to. When you do give a good listen to Fey's Beethoven, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I've really fallen in love with them.

You are going to wait a looooong time for that boxed set! The cycle is nowhere near complete yet, so the boxed set probably won't be available for many years (only 6 volumes of a possible 33 out). Luckily, unlike the Brautigam Haydn, the volumes are available at very reasonable cost, with 4 of them at your music and bmg music clubs already. If you want a boxed set of Haydn symphonies that is close to the Fey, then look at the Adam Fischer set from Brilliant Classics which can be had for under $100. That set has already garnered the 10/10 and it's similar in that it's also modern instruments played in the manner of a period orchestra.

As to hearing the Fey Beethoven, I wrote my opinion earlier in this thread and recommended them to everyone. I just wanted to compared them to the Dausgaard and Vänskä.

Btw, just to get your juices going, Immerseel and the Anima Eterna orchestra are starting a Beethoven cycle next year. I'm just curious as to whether he will re-record the piano concertos with this orchestra. It's getting almost impossible to find his recordings of the PCs made with The Classical Band.

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Btw, just to get your juices going, Immerseel and the Anima Eterna orchestra are starting a Beethoven cycle next year. I'm just curious as to whether he will re-record the piano concertos with this orchestra. It's getting almost impossible to find his recordings of the PCs made with The Classical Band.

Immerseel's Beethoven PC's are recorded with Tafelmusik Orchestra.
Tafelmusik has recently released a Mozart 40/41 recording on Sony
again, even though their Beethoven sym cycle is not completed either
(Nos. 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9?). The conductor on these albums is
the same Bruno Weil. One has to do a search to find all Tafelmusik
Beethoven symphony recordings as they are all over the place,
some available in Japan only.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino /img/forum/go_quote.gif Immerseel's Beethoven PC's were recorded with Tafelmusik Orchestra. Tafelmusik has recently released a Mozart 40/41 recording on Sony, even though their Beethoven sym cycle is not completed either (Nos. 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9?). The conductor on these albums is the same Bruno Weil. One has to do a search to find all Tafelmusik Beethoven symphony recordings as they are all over the place, on different labels, etc. some available in Japan only.

Yes, and I have them right in front of me. Weil recorded the Schubert which is also at my side with the Classical Band. I was not referring to the Tafelmusik recordings of Beethoven, but to the future Immerseel release.

It's mentioned at the end of the description or the Ravel Bolero at the Zig-Zag Territoires website:

This is the last project of Anima Eterna before the complete symphonies of Beethoven which will be released in 2008 ! As you can see on their concerts’agenda, many Beethoven concerts are scheduled to prepare this big event.

Btw, I am still wondering whether he will re-record the piano concertos, even though I know that many artists don't care to revisit things they have already recorded. I certainly hope he will re-record them as I think it will be wonderful to have a later performance with this new orchestra which he conducts from the piano.

 

[seacard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, and I have them right in front of me. Weil recorded the Schubert which is also at my side with the Classical Band. I was not referring to the Tafelmusik recordings of Beethoven, but to the future Immerseel release. It's mentioned at the end of the description or the Ravel Bolero at the Zig-Zag Territoires website: This is the last project of Anima Eterna before the complete symphonies of Beethoven which will be released in 2008 ! As you can see on their concerts’agenda, many Beethoven concerts are scheduled to prepare this big event. Btw, I am still wondering whether he will re-record the piano concertos, even though I know that many artists don't care to revisit things they have already recorded. I certainly hope he will re-record them as I think it will be wonderful to have a later performance with this new orchestra which he conducts from the piano.

Do we really need more Beethoven? I have 7 sets or near-sets already (Szell, Karajan, and Barenboim for the "more traditional approach" and Gardiner, Vanska, Dausgaard, and Fey for the more modern approach. Plus, I have sitting in my Amazon Wish List the new Norrington, the new Haitink, and the Abbado). Will conductors please stop recording these already so I can stop buying them.

off topic and in the wrong thread: Bunny, which Schubert do you like better, Weil or Immerseel? I am very close to buying the Bruggen, but still considering the Immerseel set and the Weil half-set.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do we really need more Beethoven? I have 7 sets or near-sets already (Szell, Karajan, and Barenboim for the "more traditional approach" and Gardiner, Vanska, Dausgaard, and Fey for the more modern approach. Plus, I have sitting in my Amazon Wish List the new Norrington, the new Haitink, and the Abbado). Will conductors please stop recording these already so I can stop buying them. off topic and in the wrong thread: Bunny, which Schubert do you like better, Weil or Immerseel? I am very close to buying the Bruggen, but still considering the Immerseel set and the Weil half-set.

I don't know about anyone else, but I can never have enough Beethoven. It's an addiction.

Btw, I just can't seem to muster up any interest in a set by Abbado and similarly, I haven't really found the Haitinck set at all tempting at this point.

 

[BAwig05]

I assume we're talking about Haitink's LSO Live! set?

As for Abbado, the man is enormusly talented, but there must be something beetween DH's oughtright scorn and the UK's heaps of praise.

As for myself I find Abbado's Ravel, Mendelssohn, Brahms and even Wagner to be very impressive. Beethoven I'm not so sure about.

And in my mind, Haitink has gone dull.

 

[Masolino]

My apologies if this has been discussed here already. But I have
recently encountered a website specializing in restoring old recordings
with their own house technology, har-bal. The results are quite
remarkable to my ears. They have issued their own versions of
Beethoven symphony recordings by Weingartner, Toscanini, Walter etc.
Definite a treat for enthusiasts of these recordings:
http://www.pristineclassical.com/
where they offer plenty of sound examples and a variety of formats for
listening and purchase, quite the way to go in view of the future of
musical industry.

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Btw, I am still wondering whether he will re-record the piano concertos, even though I know that many artists don't care to revisit things they have already recorded. I certainly hope he will re-record them as I think it will be wonderful to have a later performance with this new orchestra which he conducts from the piano.

Later Beethoven pc's, namely 4 & 5, don't seem to lend themselves too well to the soloist-conducts-from-piano approach. Maybe I am wrong, but is there any recording of these pieces with no conductor at the podium? Immerseel may re-record the Beethoven PC's with his own Anima Eterna orchestra, but I presume there will be a different soloist than himself. Mozart or early Beethoven concertos, that's a different story. Immerseel's earlier integral Mozart concerti (on the Channel Classics label) are quite beautiful (if also quite a bit laidback compared to some really animated performances, such as the two Staier/Concerto Koln recordings on Teldec). Here Immerseel conducts from the keyboard, as he did in a recent series of live recordings, available only as downloads from Zig-Zag T.