[Shahrose]

now i usually listen at low volumes but sometimes get the urge to twist that volume pot a bit for a more energetic experience. i noticed, however, that both the dt990 and the proline 750 start sounding boomy at high volumes. i'm referring ofcourse to the bass. i'm not sure why this is and i'd like your help. could it be that my amp is not powerful enough to control the drivers at higher volumes? could my source be inadequate? (i keep the source volume at no more than 70% and the amp volume at 12 o' clock to 2 o' clock) or is it just my headphones?

if it's a power issue...well i've been trying to find an excuse to get a better amp anyways...

 

[gpalmer]

This is a complete shot in the dark since I have no experience with either headphone. It may be a characteristic of the headphones.

It may also be because of how humans hear. Have you ever seen a loudness control on a preamp? They are there because the human ear responds more strongly to both treble and bass as the volume of the sound increases. The loudness control compensates for this effect at low volumes and accentuates the bass and treble. You don't say what the source is but I assume it's a computer from your mention of settings. If you are tweaking the frequency response of the source so it sounds good at low volumes you might be making it boomy.

It's unlikely that you are driving the headphones that hard but since you don't tell us what type of amp you're using, it's hard to know that for sure.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is a complete shot in the dark since I have no experience with either headphone. It may be a characteristic of the headphones. It may also be because of how humans hear. Have you ever seen a loudness control on a preamp? They are there because the human ear responds more strongly to both treble and bass as the volume of the sound increases. The loudness control compensates for this effect at low volumes and accentuates the bass and treble. You don't say what the source is but I assume it's a computer from your mention of settings. If you are tweaking the frequency response of the source so it sounds good at low volumes you might be making it boomy. It's unlikely that you are driving the headphones that hard but since you don't tell us what type of amp you're using, it's hard to know that for sure.

sry, forgot to mention that all my equipment is listed in my sig. also, i think you might have a point with the loudness perceptions. however, if that's the only case, i'd be pretty disappointed as that would mean there's no amp (or headphone) that can fix this problem if it's an inherent flaw of hearing. fortunately, having studied hearing keenly in my undergrad, i know that the loudness curves can't be the only reason for the boomy bass at high volumes. as proof of this, i have often heard loud speaker systems that remained tight at high volumes.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif sry, forgot to mention that all my equipment is listed in my sig. also, i think you might have a point with the loudness perceptions. however, if that's the only case, i'd be pretty disappointed as that would mean there's no amp (or headphone) that can fix this problem if it's an inherent flaw of hearing. fortunately, having studied hearing keenly in my undergrad, i know that the loudness curves can't be the only reason for the boomy bass at high volumes. as proof of this, i have often heard loud speaker systems that remained tight at high volumes.

OK, that's good news. At least we can move along a bit further in the debugging.

What happens when you adjust the relative volume levels? For instance, set the source to 85% and drop the amp volume. Without hearing the sound (and often even if i were) it's hard to say which component is the problematic one.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif sry, forgot to mention that all my equipment is listed in my sig.

Also, can you confirm the eq on the sound card is flat? and that it doesn't have a loudness setting that is turned on?

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, can you confirm the eq on the sound card is flat? and that it doesn't have a loudness setting that is turned on?

eq on the soundcard is flat, and i don't use any dsp's of any sort, bass and treble settings are left at their default values of 50%. no special feature like the CMSS 3D or crystallizer are being used either (soundcard features).

the one thing i use is the foobar equalizer and even that only to reduce particular treble frequencies on the dt990. i don't boost bass, and even if i ever were to, i would cut, not boost the frequencies.

i just read what you suggested about experimenting with the source/amp volumes...and i'm not sure why i hadn't performed this simple test earlier. i turned the source volume down to 1% and the amp volume to almost maximum. then i did the inverse; i increased the source volume up to 80% and amp volume to 7 o clock (very low). i found that when the source volume was very high the bass sounded boomier and the soundstage became constricted. when the amp was turned up and the source was low, the bass was somewhat tighter and soundstage was larger.

i guess the trick is to keep the source volume low and keep the amp volume relatively high then.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif i guess the trick is to keep the source volume low and keep the amp volume relatively high then.

Cool, the proper ratios of those two will tend to vary with the equipment and the music you are using. Apparently you were overdriving the gain stage which is the same thing that solid state amps do when they want to produce distortion. How much of an improvement did you get? Is it usable now?

 

[gpalmer]

One other thing and I'll apologize if this is a braindead question but you are using the line out on your sound card aren't you, not the headphone out? Sorry if this is a stupid question, it's been a while since I've posted and I'm not sue what level you are at.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif One other thing and I'll apologize if this is a braindead question but you are using the line out on your sound card aren't you, not the headphone out? Sorry if this is a stupid question, it's been a while since I've posted and I'm not sue what level you are at.

yes i'm using the line out...analog outputs from my sound card. i have a mini stereo cable terminating to rca plugs that go into the headfive. with the soundcard volume low and the amp volume high, there is an audible improvement but i would like more. i think what i need is an amp that has a higher gain since my source doesn't provide much voltage (volume) and at high volumes i guess begins to get stressed, which hurts sq.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif yes i'm using the line out...analog outputs from my sound card. i have a mini stereo cable terminating to rca plugs that go into the headfive. with the soundcard volume low and the amp volume high, there is an audible improvement but i would like more. i think what i need is an amp that has a higher gain since my source doesn't provide much voltage (volume) and at high volumes i guess begins to get stressed, which hurts sq.

That's a very possible hunch about the output of the sound card. I'd try another source and see if things improve with the amp. I can't comment on the HeadFive but generally Jan Meier does excellent work engineering his products so I would be surprised to find out it was the amp unless you're pushing it so hard you're running out of headroom (No, not them!)