[Dimitri]

I was talking to the owner of my local hifi shop yesterday. He was ranting about how he can't even listen to regular cds, and how the new hirez digital formats were passable but vinyl was still better. He said, "I've got a turntable (in stock) for $399 that'll sound better than a $10,000 cd player." Is he serious? I expect he was exaggerating to a degree... He was snobbish and intimidating, so I left without asking for a demonstration. If an affordable turntable is going to sound that much better than a high end digital player, should I drop my current plan to start a sacd collection and look to vinyl to satisfy my budget-minded audiophilia? I'd appreciate the comments of any vinyl junkies.

Thanks,

Dimitri

 

[Dimitri]

Forgot to ask:

How much for a entry level vinyl setup? I've got a headphone amp, interconnects and phones. Besides the turntable itself (say, a 400-500 dollar unit), what would I need?

 

[Todd]

Hi Dimitri,

I think that the sound of vinyl is unrivaled. That said, there is a lot more convenience to using digital - whether it be cd, sacd or mp3. A very good entry level turntable will set you back around $500 for a Music Hall MMF5 or SOTA Moonbeam. Both perform extremely well for the money and are easy to use. You will need a phono stage and , in my opinion, a good record cleaner. Almost any album is still available in very good condition used and there are a lot of new pressings available. I just bought a boatload of records for a couple hundred bucks. I have been listening to music for over a week and have only gotten about half way through the albums!

SACD is as close to vinyl as anything I have heard but to get into it and buy discs, it will cost you more than a good vinyl source and used records. Give me a call and we can discuss this further...
866-444-3910

Todd

 

[Geek]

No, he wasn't exaggerating. Vinyl is purely and simply a better format than CD or SACD. It's on a whole new (or old?) level of realism.

Vinyl is the format of the future. It trounces CD and SACD, even on high end CDPs/amp/phone combos.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Vinyl is the format of the future.

Vinyl often sounds better to my ears (at least if it's well recorded and pressed), and I think there will be a market for it for a long time to come... but this statement is pushing things over the line. Maybe you haven't looked at how many new CD releases came out over the past year, as compared to vinyl?

Come on peoples, we've got to stay realistic and not go all flippy (or make comments that could lead to disappointment and bad first impressions, like saying a $399 turntable would necessarily sound better than a $10,000 CD player). Vinyl is not coming back as a mainstream format like it was in the 1960's, 70's... it ain't gonna happen. It is the format of the past, although we still get to enjoy it today and into the forseeable future. Even the hardcore devotees on the Vinyl Asylum at audioasylum.com agree on this as a matter of course.

P.S. to Dimitri... I hope you didn't project this statement to mean a $150 turntable sounds better than a $3,000 CD player. If you get into vinyl, avoid the cheapy plastic turntables like the plague, they sound awful. If you can't tolerate some clicks/pops + surface noise (even the priciest tables won't eliminate this) then think twice... some people raised on digital may have a low tolerance for surface noise, and there's no getting away from it completely with vinyl.

 

[Dimitri]

Thanks for all the great responses. I called Todd, discussed vinyl gear, and became VERY excited about getting into the old format. My parents have hundreds of albums stored away in their basement--sooo glad they never threw them out! Tons of 60s/70s rock and a bunch of classical just waiting to be played. I think I'll keep my ns500v for sacds (its cheap and I love it), and buy a good vinyl system whenever I can come up with $1200 or so.

Cheers,

Dimitri

 

[Geek]

Regardless of popularity or technological sophistication, when done properly vinyl is by far a better sound.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Ebonyks]

Geek, please see fewtch's post. You're making general blanket statements that simply aren't true. No 500 dollar table compares to a good high end digital source, period. I feel that vinyl repersents a better "Bang for your buck" as compared to digital sources in the 500-1000 dollar range, your claims are unrealistic and give head-fi a bad name as a whole. Please stop this.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ebonyks Geek, please see fewtch's post. You're making general blanket statements that simply aren't true. No 500 dollar table compares to a good high end digital source, period.

Errrm... you just made a general blanket statement yourself there, Ebonyks...

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Also, you gotta remember that even at $15,000, there will always be bad (read: underperformance) digital sources at that price point. $500 is a good starting point for a "mid-fi" turntable/cartridge setup. Try getting a digital setup that sounds anywhere near as good as a $500 table for anywhere near that low of a price... That's highly improbable. Moreover, I've heard some $4000 CD players that sound worse than some $300 TT/cart combos, the latter on a crappy $50 phono stage to boot.

On the other hand, the only way that digital can trounce analogue is if both the digital and the analogue setups cost $100 or less apiece. At that price point, then yeah, a low-end CDP does sound better than a crappy TT/cart combo from Sony, A-T and RCA (RadioShack) - yep, they all use the very same OEM el crappo table with slightly revised cosmetics for each brand - with their heavy-tracking, stiff-moving, vinyl-mulching tonearms and crap-tacular plastic stylus cantilevers.

 

[Todd]

The difference in the way analog sounds vs. digital can be heard even in inexpensive equipment. I have listened to Krell, Meridian, BAT, Musical Fidelity and other high end digital sources and none of them can sound the same as, for instance, the $1300 Bluenote Piccolo with a decent cartridge. I OWN a Meridian 507. it sits on my work desk. I use a Prehead, an Emmeline HR-2 and Cosmic Reference for Headphone amps. When I connect it up to my turntable rack (5 different turntables run through a switch box and then into a phono stage and heaphone amp) to listen there is a clear difference between the Meridian and any of the turntables. I personally prefer the sound of vinyl.
I make that as a blanket statement. I don't dislike digital but there is a difference and I can hear it. Am I going to get rid of my Meridian??? NO. Do I use it as much as my main vinyl rig??? NO.

Geek came over to my house without any prejudice. We compared some vinyl to digital. He likes the sound of vinyl. Is there a problem with that? I don't have any problem nor do I have any problem with someone who prefers CD or SACD or DVDA or MP3 or 8 track.

There are inherent problems with any of the current formats. Compare the signal from digital to analog and you will see that the analog signal is truer to the original. It is not stepped.

Todd

 

[AIM9x]

Quote:

Originally posted by Todd or 8 track.

phew... guess you decided to save the best for last. Nothing like my $3800 8 track player to really test out these sr225s.

on another note, I am not a fan of vinyl. Not because of the fact that I believe it is less worthy of respect than the proposed thirty-eight cent piece, but because I simply have not heard a vinyl rig I can enjoy. Surface scratches make me want to go on a killing spree. You can't sneak vinyl pops and scratches by these etys, and I haven't heard a system that removes the overall background noise that vinyl creates. All this talk of such great tone just makes me think of someone in a beautiful concert hall with such great music being played, but getting stuck sitting right in front of a massive air vent. All he can think of is this incessant vwirring noise. You can't stop it and all the seats are taken so you can't move. What's the only solution? Find a concert hall without that damned air vent: i.e. go digital.

If any of you have a vinyl system that can prove me wrong, I hope to hear it someday. Until then, I shall stick with my cds.

 

[Ebonyks]

Yes fewtch, but my blanket statement is true

 

[Todd]

Back in the day my non audiophile friends bought 8-tracks because they were convenient and were playable in the car. I used cassettes ( not as bad) in my car. The 8-tracks made them happy even though they were, shall we say real bad, and annoying. For those of you to young to remember, an 8 track would switch tracks right in mid song - and NOT smoothly. There was so much tape hiss that you could go deaf listening between songs. They were destined for the audio dung heap from the get go. But they made some people happy for a time... the 8-track reference in my previous post was a joke, of course...

What is really important is the MUSIC!

AIM9x,

You are welcome anytime to come and listen to my vinyl rig. With most (not all) of my records you will hear little or no popping. They have been taken care of and cleaned.

You got a $3800 8 track player too!

Todd

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dimitri He said, "I've got a turntable (in stock) for $399 that'll sound better than a $10,000 cd player." Is he serious?

I don't think so, but anyway if you like it, enjoy it, some members prefer the vinyl, and some others not, (the huge majority), we are all wrong, I don't think so, some for sound quality, others because of the hassle of the LPs manipulation (a fact), and in order to hear a decent vinyl setup, all begins on that LP has to be in very good shape, without scratch, or pops, or noise, which IMO, is almost impossible to get nowadays, and those noises are extremely annoying at least for me, I prefer a "less realistic sounding setup", than a noisy LP, that at the end is reminding me, all the time, that I'm hearing an LP, so would it sound more realistic to me that way? No.........but anyway I do not think in any case that a $399.99 vinyl setup, will outperform a 10,000.00 CD player...