[regal]

I think the whole balanced is better idea started by people comparing low gain amps like the B22 vs their balanced version. Of course they liked the gain of 12x better than the gain of 6x on high impedance phones like Senns or AKG240's. 6x gain isn't enough for these phones.


If you had identical amps one balanced and one SE but with the same gain, I suspect there would be little difference.

 

[Ruahrc]

What if you generalized this argument to say is it better to get a "low-end" balanced amp or a "higher end" SE amp? I've been waffling over Headroom's Desktop amps for a while now and can't decide whether or not getting the Balanced Desktop with matching K701s is better than getting the maxed-out SE Desktop amp instead. The main difference between the two are that the balanced desktop uses a lower end amp unit and DAC (headroom's "Home" level circuitry) whereas the SE Desktop amp uses a a higher end "Max" amp and DAC (which uses the supposedly best Burr Brown 627 opamps in both amp and DAC sections). Price wise they are pretty much the same (within 100-200 of each other on a $2k system). This includes the whole kit, that is, headphones, amp/DAC, and dedicated power supply unit for proper driving of said components.

The way I see it, $2k is near the low end for balanced amps. But it (should) get you a really nice SE amp+DAC combo. So the question becomes is it worth it to buy an entry level balanced system or a pretty good SE setup...

Ruahrc

 

[pabbi1]

this is a valid point on the MillettMax, as I would clip the old version SE with the HD6x0... no possibilities of that on the balanced Max.

Now, on electrostatic, all are balanced by nature, so mayhaps that is part of why so many prefer ES. But, gain or not, I feel the balance simply offers more driving headroom, and a larger sweetspot than does SE. Just my opinion, that I back up with my own money, not to help sell anyone's product. Just for emphasis, all my balanced gear is DIY.

My balanced MillettMax, with DAC was $700 and the balanced Bijou about $600. The balanced Millett Starving Student was ~$200.

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruahrc /img/forum/go_quote.gif ) whereas the SE Desktop amp uses a a higher end "Max" amp and DAC (which uses the supposedly best Burr Brown 627 opamps in both amp and DAC sections).... Ruahrc

Do more research before spending $2000 to have opamps in your audio chain.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif About all I have to offer is that with tubes I tend to stick to single ended because tubes can be god awful expensive to replace.

Yeah, learned my lesson on el34.... 12fk6 and 6n1p / 6n6p are far more reasonable to have 10 or 20 of each...

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do more research before spending $2000 to have opamps in your audio chain.

Because ICs/Opamps are somehow inherently bad? I'd rank that statement right up there with "needs moar burn-in" on my pet peeve list of baseless statements that constantly get parroted around here.

Yeah, my Wadia sure sounded like poo. Poor thing was just hamstrung using those generic BUF634s on the outputs. Whatever was Wadia thinking? And the Hertsens DAC (Headroom balanced MAX DAC) really doesn't compare well to other high priced DACs. Oh wait, multiple people have compared that DAC favorably to others costing $2k and above. They must be crazy tin-eared individuals.

 

[mellowbear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MONVMENTVM /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'll give the Trafomatic Experience Head One or the Woo 6 a run and meanwhile I'm looking for an apropriate DAC .

I have recently (10 days ago) bought Grado GS1000 after extensive research and demos of various Headphones here in London (I am a complete headphone newb) I realise that burn time is approx 500 hours, I am very pleased with SQ but find the mids a little thin at the moment, will a good unbalanced tube amp help fatten the midrange or will it improve with burn in. I have read that the EAR HP4 is a great match for the gS1000's but at £2500+ here in the U.K. is way beyond my budget. I have read good reviews of Trafomatic Experience Head One and at £700 delivered to London from Poland is a more realistic price, I was also thinking of getting the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 3, when it is released here on 8th October for £200, which, I have read will give £1000 Dacs a run for their money and represent excellent value for money. Has anyone had experience of the Trafomatic Head One with Gs 1000's and do you think it will significantly help fatten the midrange but also be transparent? Do you think that this combo will give best bang for buck circa this price range, only thing worrying me is having to send Trafomatic back to Serbia if problems occur, Then again it looks very solidly built.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be gratefully recieved

 

[Ruahrc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do more research before spending $2000 to have opamps in your audio chain.

I agree with n_maher. Could you elaborate a little more what you mean by this? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was pretty widely accepted that the Burr Brown 627 opamp was among the very best opamps you could use in a SS design... thus I was merely pointing out that the maxed out Desktop amp with its Burr Brown 627s must be a pretty decent amp (dare I even say that it is a good amp?), certainly better than an entry level SE amp. Whereas the Headroom balanced amp seems to be more towards the entry level as far as balanced amps go.

Ruahrc

 

[MONVMENTVM]

The Trafomatic should be a very transparent amp so I don't know if your problem with the mids will disappear.

I don't know how many hours my GS-1000 have (since I got them used I didn't burn them in but use them on a regular basis). Anyway I like the mids a lot. They aren't that forward like on my HF-1 or SR-60 but very detailed and it doesn't seem congested to me either. It sounds just right out of my iBasso D2 Viper with OPA627.

I'm still not sure if I should get a WA6 (probably maxxed out?) or the Trafomatic. It's cool that you can fiddle around with the WA6 and upgrade various things on it but the Trafomatic should be better designed from what I heard. But there won't be many things to upgrade on it. Even the circuit is completely designed to fit the tubes used so even tubes rolling won't be a real option. Only getting the same tubes but from a better manufacturer would be an option to upgrade the whole thing.

By the way if there is no Trafomatic distributor in you country you should buy it from them directly. It will cost 600 Euro + shipping cost to your country. Then if you are lucky you won't have to pay any customs... and if not, it would still be a bit under 700 GBP.

 

[Blackmore]

I would say, if you don't mind, just wait a while. As I understand, KEES must receive his Trafomatic pretty soon now, or already have, and he own GS1000 as well.
Another options, just maybe, is Musical Fidelity X8, which received a lot of love already and I believe he can drive GS1000, after some tube rolling, pretty good to.

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because ICs/Opamps are somehow inherently bad? I'd rank that statement right up there with "needs moar burn-in" on my pet peeve list of baseless statements that constantly get parroted around here. .

N_Maher we all have our opinions based on our experience.

If you ever heard a system with Zero NFB from the Dac chip to your headphones you would know what I mean, I highly recommend everyone listen to a system like this once.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif N_Maher we all have our opinions based on our experience.

And I'm just saying that applying any sort of axiom irrespective of the implementation is short sighted. If you prefer no NFB coupled with a discrete output stage I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but your outright dismissal of opamps surely is.

 

[XXII]

surely the balanced ground output of the opera/symphony is not the same as going true balanced?...maybe I've missed something...

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tube matching with balanced tube amps is a pain .... especially without a tube tester.

Personally I think people make too much of tube matching, but most places offer a pretty cheap matching service anyways.

 

[MONVMENTVM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XXII /img/forum/go_quote.gif surely the balanced ground output of the opera/symphony is not the same as going true balanced?...maybe I've missed something...

It's not the same but it has most of the benefits of true balanced ground...