[tbritton]

The local pro music store here (Music Loft in Greensboro, NC) has as their best offering the Ultrasone Pro Line 750's for $399 and the HFI 2000's for $249. Other than those, they have the Audio Technica ATH-M40's for $79.

Edit - Music Loft sold me the Proline 750s at $345, but they have since been seen as low as $245! Search the "There's Something about Ultrasones" mega-thread.

Has anyone had any experience with those as MIXING headphones? Recording applications aren't as critical, as I am pretty scientific in my settings for recording. These are to help in final mixdown to stereo and for mastering that I will use them for.

All the best,

Terry

Edit - I am an Ultrasone super-fanboy now! Find my rantings at the "There's Something About Ultrasones" mega-thread!

 

[Le Dechaine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beedee /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO, depending upon what kind of music you're listening to, HD280's may lack that bass "impact" or punch, but the low bass extension is very nice and very low.

Yeah, 'saw on Headphone Reviews that the bass is indefinitely extended, almost frightening, sure below the 20 Hz ..this sentence almost convinced me to buy them

Almost, because i'm creating electronic music and i'm always willing to perfection my kicks and basses, and that i *may* use them for DJ'ing in the future, but like i saw on another forum, in short, you hear not enough bass in the headphones, you compensate in the EQ, and at the end of the night, say hello to the damages.. Now that's what i fear, looking at the -18dB @ 20hz in the HeadRoom's Graph!

But well, it's the only thing i fear (this and it's emphasis of the midrange..

), for the rest i know they are monitoring headphones, with great (even excellent) 32dB ambient noise attenuation, and that they go down 20hz and that they are "analyzing".. and that's all i want!

By the way I can have them for 150$ CAN (+tx) here.

PS: Looks like everyone is almost telling me "no, go with the V6, almost everyone monitors with V6's", but i've never listened carefully to Sony's headphones, and the fact that almost everyone uses them, IMHO, doesn't necessarily means that they're the #1 monitoring headphones. (And i don't know anything about the V6's!) I've only carefully listened to Sennheisers (HD477, mine, which are open) and some Rolands (RH-10 maybe?, closed). And i found the Rolands closed headphones low-end.. well.. let's say, strange.

'Still open to all suggestions so.

 

[Snacks]

I have searched high and low, but for the life of me, I cannot find something solid for the definition of a monitor.
What are the characteristics of a monitor?
Can a monitor be used to enjoy music or is it used strictly for "monitoring", whatever that means?

What are some good/above average monitors?

In my search and in this very thread, I have run across the following recommendations for monitors:

AKG 5/6/701
Alessandro MS-1
AT W5000
AT W1000
AT 950
AT 900
Beyerdynamic DT250/250
Sennheiser HD25
Sennheiser HD280
Sennheiser HD580
Sennheiser HD595
Sennheiser HD600
Sennheiser HD650
Sony MDR7506
STAX 4070

Most of these headphones are meant for music enjoyment as well, correct; however, it has been stated in other threads that monitors are not meant for music enjoyment?

Also, IEM...are they for music or monitoring?

 

[bellsprout]

If IEM's are alright, why not ER-4S?

flat as a tack. the elevation in the mids is because they go inside the ear. also, they are really fast and very detailed.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have searched high and low, but for the life of me, I cannot find something solid for the definition of a monitor. What are the characteristics of a monitor? Can a monitor be used to enjoy music or is it used strictly for "monitoring", whatever that means? What are some good/above average monitors? In my search and in this very thread, I have run across the following recommendations for monitors: AKG 5/6/701 Alessandro MS-1 AT W5000 AT W1000 AT 950 AT 900 Beyerdynamic DT250/250 Sennheiser HD25 Sennheiser HD280 Sennheiser HD580 Sennheiser HD595 Sennheiser HD600 Sennheiser HD650 Sony MDR7506 STAX 4070 Most of these headphones are meant for music enjoyment as well, correct; however, it has been stated in other threads that monitors are not meant for music enjoyment? Also, IEM...are they for music or monitoring?

Out of all of these mentioned, I've only seen two of these in studios - the Sony MDR7506 (which is the same as the V6) is just about everywhere ('cause they're cheap and sturdy) and the Sennheiser 595 which I've seen used once or twice.

I'm very surprised that you haven't seen the Ultrasone Proline 750 (or other Ultrasones) suggested yet - they are gaining widespread acceptance in studios and by DJs, vocalists, radio professionals, etc.
http://ultrasoneusa.com/testimonials-media.php

IEM is an acronym standing for "In-Ear Monitor" but don't allow that to confuse the issue - they are for monitoring by the musicians in the studio or on stage instead of using speaker-based monitors. Though they are "flat" and could be used for very successfully for tracking by a recording engineer (especially if she/he is not isolated in a sound-truck for live recordings), they are not good for mixing, IMHO. Their presentation is just too unlike any other to be trusted to translate to speakers or even to other headphones reliably. The Ultrasones are the only headphones I could ever use and would trust for doing a mix down using headphones, or for mastering. Otherwise, mixing or mastering using good near-field monitor speakers would be the only way to go, again, IMHO.

I'd be interested to hear if anybody doing sound reinforcement has had any success in mixing for their rooms wearing IEMs to protect their own hearing by using such isolating headphones? It would be a departure, to say the least, almost like flying by instruments, it seems to me!

Terry

 

[wovenhand]

I use HD650's for my monitoring needs. I'm an audio engineering student, and I do 90% of my personal, non-school related mixing at home, then bring it to school to check it on the Genelec 1030A and 1038A's.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wovenhand /img/forum/go_quote.gif I use HD650's for my monitoring needs. I'm an audio engineering student, and I do 90% of my personal, non-school related mixing at home, then bring it to school to check it on the Genelec 1030A and 1038A's.

What kinds of music are you doing, wovenhand? I'd think the HD650s would be too "classical music oriented" for most other (non-classical) work! (Glad your checking with the Genelecs! Nice!) Are you having to do much adjustment when you do your checks against the Genelecs? If so, for what?

Terry

 

[wovenhand]

Hehe, good question, it's kinda hard to pin it in a genre. I don't know if you've heard Neurosis, but anyhoo.. it's very much in that vein, but with way less guitars and distorted piano added. ^^ The drums I must say are pretty close to what they've got (Steve Albini is a god). Lots and lots of early reflections and delayed ambience mics.

So far, on what I've checked on the Genelec's, they only thing I can think of I have to adjust is to drop of a little in the lower mid frequencies, especially when it comes to drums.
Though, I must reserve myself til I have checked mixes of the album I'm currently working on, as it is by faaaar the best sounding source material I have ever worked with. Up to this point, most stuff I've mixed has been of the "polishing a turd" quality.
I actually just finished a few mixes, so I am going to check 'em on the Genelecs either tomorrow or on friday, depending if the main studio is booked or not, and I can then get back to you with a more proper review.

 

[wovenhand]

And oh yeah, I would NOT recommend using the HD 280's for mixing. I did once upon a time and always had to re-do tons of stuff when checking on proper equipment. Especially boosting mid, since the HD280's have some emphasis there, resulting in your mixes have a weird hollow quality to 'em on proper equipment.

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have searched high and low, but for the life of me, I cannot find something solid for the definition of a monitor. What are the characteristics of a monitor? Can a monitor be used to enjoy music or is it used strictly for "monitoring", whatever that means? In my search and in this very thread, I have run across the following recommendations for monitors: AKG 5/6/701 Alessandro MS-1 AT W5000 AT W1000 AT 950 AT 900 Beyerdynamic DT250/250 Sennheiser HD25 Sennheiser HD280 Sennheiser HD580 Sennheiser HD595 Sennheiser HD600 Sennheiser HD650 Sony MDR7506 STAX 4070 Ultrasone 750 Most of these headphones are meant for music enjoyment as well, correct; however, it has been stated in other threads that monitors are not meant for music enjoyment?

Okay, I've cut out a bit of the fat, and added the Ultrasone 750 to the mix. I need to find out the answers to the above questions. If anyone knows the characteristics of a headphone/earspeaker monitor, LMK, I need to know the definition of this head-fi terminology.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, I've cut out a bit of the fat, and added the Ultrasone 750 to the mix. I need to find out the answers to the above questions. If anyone knows the characteristics of a headphone/earspeaker monitor, LMK, I need to know the definition of this head-fi terminology.

Now, if we were talking about speakers and those designed specifically to be used as monitors or near-field monitors, I would have to agree that most all of them would be terrible choices for just enjoying listening to music. (But, then, that's why I use Polk's for both!!!) The "sound" of most professional monitor speaker s is just too cold and analytical to be much fun at all.

Though you hear of some headphones being referred to as being "analytical" it is not nearly to the the same level of detriment as I refer to with speakers, and all of those "analytical" headphones are really made for their sound signature to be enjoyed by audiophiles, generally speaking - so they'd better be capable of presenting a moving and involving experience!!! I can't imagine a headphone of any quality not being capable of producing such an experience, no matter what one's preferences may be as part of a personal search for "perfection" as we here often seem to quest for!

Now, I can see performing "tracking" (setting up and recording individual tracks) with much less than stellar quality headphones (the Sony MDR7506/V6 fall into this quality fit for me... useful but not stellar). Tracking just requires you hear whether the cords are plugged in and you have some levels or, more demandingly, whether the mics are placed well enough (unless you are a purist in mic placement like some friends of mine are and I'm learning to be). So, tracking can be done with headphones that you wouldn't necessarily like as much for entertainment purposes. I wouldn't, but I'm one who fits into that "purist" category. Some other friends of mine are much more utilitarian and scoff at headphones needing any quality at all - for tracking!

Headphones are generally not recommended for doing mixing or mastering, but the Proline 750 and others in their lines have been receiving accolades for being - at last - a headphone that mixing and mastering engineers can use to do even finals with - without having to go to reference near-field speaker monitors at all. That is the biggest reason I went with the Prolines. Although I have good speaker monitors, I prefer the general transferability to speakers and headphones that the mixes and mastering efforts I've done so far with these have produced, and the ease of positioning accuracy, sitting things into the mix with EQ and other factors. Plus, I can work late at night without disturbing anyone, since my studio is at home. (I was moving the Polk LSi7's from their "rear speaker" position in my home theater setup to the mixing console area and back, but haven't felt a need to do that in a month now!)

So, short answer - yes, you should have headphones you can enjoy listening to music on as well to serve both your enjoyment and tracking needs. To do mixing and mastering, the only headphones I can/would trust are Ultrasones.

Terry

 

[wovenhand]

Okay tbritton, fresh back from the studio (and checking my HD650 mixes on Genelecs)!

I must say that I was very happily surprised. The mixes sounded better than I thought they would. Usually when mixing on cans, you hear the cans' weaknesses pretty clearly when checking on professional monitors. I've had some problem getting separation between instruments, but I was happy to hear that they had their own space. Even the lows around 50hz was properly balanced. The only adjustment I will make is to shelv down maybe 2 dB's somewhere around 10-15kHz, and that's it.
So now I will continue to mix on my HD650's with confidence.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wovenhand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay tbritton, fresh back from the studio (and checking my HD650 mixes on Genelecs)! I must say that I was very happily surprised. The mixes sounded better than I thought they would. Usually when mixing on cans, you hear the cans' weaknesses pretty clearly when checking on professional monitors. I've had some problem getting separation between instruments, but I was happy to hear that they had their own space. Even the lows around 50hz was properly balanced. The only adjustment I will make is to shelv down maybe 2 dB's somewhere around 10-15kHz, and that's it. So now I will continue to mix on my HD650's with confidence.

Well, that's awesomely good news! Just a little shelve down around 10-15kHz is what I expected might be coming. I thought there might be a little bass overdose, but apparently not (or you know your phones by now!) I'll be sure to reference your success when somebody asks me in the future about mixing with the HD650's!

Terry

 

[wovenhand]

Yes it was a pleasant surprise, indeed! I remember when I did a mix mainly on HD280's a while back and then checking it on monitors.. I almost had an anxiety attack, hehe. It sounded awful - strangely hollowed out mids.