Aune B1 Impressions thread

[Cotnijoe]

  My review on Head-Fi is done, blog review to follow shortly (with some minor variations and extra pics). Here's the local version: http://www.head-fi.org/products/aune-b1/reviews/13262

 
Nice review. Could I ask what you were running with the B1?

 

[Loquah]

Sure thing. I was feeding it from a Matrix X-Sabre to maximise sound quality. Obviously it will be used quite often with DAPs and the like, but I wanted to hear the amp at its very best, not limited by the source feeding it.

 

[Cotnijoe]

Sure thing. I was feeding it from a Matrix X-Sabre to maximise sound quality. Obviously it will be used quite often with DAPs and the like, but I wanted to hear the amp at its very best, not limited by the source feeding it.

 
Thanks. I was just interested in knowing because of your comment regarding how it distorts the sound of your K10U. 

 

[Loquah]

Yeah, I think that's potentially an output impedance issue. I heard no issues anywhere else so can only assume that the OI is just high enough to interact with the highly variable resistances in a multi-BA IEM, especially when there are 4-5 groups of BAs each with different (but in this case unknown) impedances.

 

[DrKC]

  @DrKC I think it's important to note that most of the things you've listed so far has been relatively unimportant as to what the amplifier is there to do. The measurements, to my general understanding of the B1's audience, are not there just for the sake of measurements. They're there for people to decide whether it will fit the specific purpose they have in mind, i.e. whether it will be a good match for the rest of the chain of equipment they already have.
 
You want to go NwAvGuy on the B1 like the udac-2? Great, but realize that the primary purpose is for it to sound good to the audiences ears. The purpose of the current switch is almost irrelevant because why does it matter? The way the specs are written as well would fall into this category. Who. Cares?
 
Frankly, I'd probably agree with you on the soundstage part, but I'm reminded of the fact that the sole purpose of my understanding of the word "soundstage" is for the people reading the review. If we all hold the same mistaken meaning of soundstage in mind, to me I achieved my goal. You're going for the truth of things, which holds some merit, but seriously ignores the value (or lack thereof) of the points you're trying to argue.
 
As for listening tracks, the only reason I can see you would be bothered with that is because you don't have trust in the tracks/equipment we used. Be honest, if you trusted that we'd take this as seriously as you wanted it you would probably be happy to do just that. As for tracks, I'm quite serious about the tracks I use for different parts of the frequencey, but I'm free to discuss them. I'm a bit protective in that regard, because they're almost like my tracks, but if it's bothering you so I'm happy to share them with you. I actually think most decently mastered tracks do just fine in judging most of the spectrum (drums, acoustics, trombone, etc.) for a review. As for equipment, I say what source player/headphones I use, as do most reviewers I've seen, so I really don't know what to say.
 
Keep in mind that although they may be wrong in doing so, people have a specific purpose in mind when buying the B1, and it is definitely not "absolute truth" and getting to the bottom of what it is. People care about sound, as well as functions of the equipment they use - to help them enjoy their music. Why should you care about that if you are right to debate the truth of things? Because although I hate to say it, being right isn't what matters, especially in our wonderful America. Practically speaking, it's easier on your own life to be "politically correct" than actually correct. I'm struggling with the same issue as well, but do make a note of that, in case you change your mind.
 
Anyway, onwards. I could nitpick more but there's probably nothing that's going to come out of that. Sound's what we're looking for, and don't forget to see if it sounds "good to the ear," not only "correct" 

 
Edit: I'm very sure the B1 does not sound the same as the E12, to me, and I have both on hand for a/b comparisons (although I couldn't tell from your post whether you have it on hand or not), the B1 is quite ahead in terms of sound, and I'm sticking with that.

Well, I didn't expect such swift responses.  But if I can be honest, without intending any offense, I'm not sure I fully understand everything said in your post.  Blame it on my age, the mad cow, etc.  I think you were saying specifications don't matter.  That's OK, I agree it's not the final word on how something will sound.  For someone with an engineering background though, they often communicate other bits of information such as the performance of the overall design, construction and layout quality, even parts selection.  It's just not the absolute numbers.  I think you were saying that the music you used for the review was irrelevant.  I don't think I'm in a total minority here when I say, it IS important to me.  If you did your evaluation and formed your opinions listening to EDM and techno, I would find the relevance of the review negligible to me.  I don't listen that kind of music and probably won't in the future.  This is not a critique of your musical taste, but what matters to you when listening to that music is probably different than what matters to me and my chosen music.  The quality of a particular recording IS important to me.  Those of us who have spent years or decades improving the sound and resolution of our systems have a different point of view than those who haven't traveled that road.  It is all a matter of personal preference and taste.  The same things are not important to everyone.  That was my pitch for including this information.  The desire to know the equipment used is not a snobbery or elitist thing.  How will something fit in or compliment my existing system.  You yourself pointed this out.
And my concern over the 20/40 switch I think is valid.  If I spend my money for something and it has a feature or option, why shouldn't I care what it does or its function?  I paid for it, it was advertised as a key feature - I should just not care what it does?  This is really not the place or part of the forum for this exchange.   I'll be happy to continue any further discussion via PM, if you would like.  Oh, my B1 is sitting on my desk next to the E12, X5 and X3.
 
For those who thought I was targeting them or their reviews, I wasn't.  It was a general complaint.  Look around Headfi at any number of reviews - go to some other audio sites and you'll see the same thing.  So, no, I wasn't trying to point a finger at anybody.  My apologies if it seemed that way.
Those who said where is the sound review.  As I noted this was a Part 1 of 2 and I needed to finish compiling my listening notes.  Those who declared their opinion of the B1 vs the E12, OK.  It's fine.  It represents your evaluation and your thoughts.  You should be proud of that.  I decided to listen to a couple of more albums today, so I might not get everything posted till tomorrow.
Have a good Sunday (for those in North America)

 

[miceblue]

And what about that 20mA/40mA switch?  Well, I still don't know.  You can find, if you're patient, that the amp operates in Class A regardless of the switch position.  It alludes to offering a higher source current for... I'm not sure.  So, I emailed Aune asking 1. What is the output impedance and did it change with the gain setting and 2. Can you explain the purpose of the 20mA/40mA switch.  I waited 7 business days with no reply.  I re-sent the email.  That was 2 weeks ago.  Still, no reply.  Hmm... I thought of 3 reasons for the silent treatment.  1. No one there could translate English.  2. No one there actually knew the answer to my questions.  3. They knew the answer and decided not to share that with me as I indicated that I was doing a review for Headfi.  One can speculate about the current switch - are they moving the bias point along the load line because it seems like a cool thing to do?  It certainly affects battery life and later, as we'll see, it did have some effect on the sound.

Sneak peak for my impressions, but I agree with this too.

The power output specifications obviously have a current limit of 40 mA, which happens to be the same number on the 20/40 switch. However, I tried running the B1 at maximum volume, high-gain, switching between the 20 and 40 switches using a current-demanding headphone (in this case just a cheap-o JLab J5 in-ear earphone), and I couldn't hear any volume difference. I'll probably do the same test with my OPPO PM-3, but I'm expecting the same results.

Sonically, I can't hear a reliable difference between the two current modes. MAAAAAAAAAAAYBE the 40 mA one sounds a bit more refined in the treble, but I could be fooling myself there since they sound so similar otherwise and the ~3-second switching time (turn off B1, switch current mode, turn on B1) is unreliable for humans.


In terms of how Class A amps work, I guess it's theoretically possible to move the bias around within a transistor's linear region, but from what I've heard, I don't hear a difference.

 

[Cotnijoe]

 
Sneak peak for my impressions, but I agree with this too.

The power output specifications obviously have a current limit of 40 mA, which happens to be the same number on the 20/40 switch. However, I tried running the B1 at maximum volume, high-gain, switching between the 20 and 40 switches using a current-demanding headphone (in this case just a cheap-o JLab J5 in-ear earphone), and I couldn't hear any volume difference. I'll probably do the same test with my OPPO PM-3, but I'm expecting the same results.

Sonically, I can't hear a reliable difference between the two current modes. MAAAAAAAAAAAYBE the 40 mA one sounds a bit more refined in the treble, but I could be fooling myself there since they sound so similar otherwise and the ~3-second switching time (turn off B1, switch current mode, turn on B1) is unreliable for humans.


In terms of how Class A amps work, I guess it's theoretically possible to move the bias around within a transistor's linear region, but from what I've heard, I don't hear a difference.

 
I also agree with that and mentioned the same thing in my review. I also dont find any difference between going 40mA and 20mA

 

[avitron142]

@DrKC I'll make this short, as this isn't really meant for the forum, like you said.
 
Like I said, most will say what equipment they've used with the item under review, so please understand that I'm a bit confused, as I agree it should be said, but disagree in the sense that I think it is said.
 
But if you really think people would form a review by only listening to EDM (or any one particular genre, for that matter), I'm happy to say that 99% of us try to listen across the spectrum when writing a review. Jazz, classical, orchestral, acoustic, vocal, rock, hip hop, psychedelic, and yes edm. I personally say the majority of genres I used, as well as the ones I haven't listened to much, in my other reviews - for the B1 I listened to my favorites across the board though.
 
If you think anyone is going to formulate a review based solely on listening to one genre take a good look at yourself mate. We're not that bloody one-sided.
 
Feel free to go on, as the OP I would be happy to have this conversation here as long as the posts stay somewhat reasonable-sized.

 

[Loquah]

I listen to pure pink noise for all my reviews!

In relation to the 20/40 question, I have no doubt after extensive listening that it is having an impact on the sound, but it's very load dependent. The in position was clearly better with LCD 2 and HD800 (fuller sound with better bass and more focussed mids), made limited difference with Fischer FA-011 LEs, and was actually less enjoyable with Thinksound On1s. In each case, except the Fischers I would confidently say that the differences could be picked in a blind test. The fact that I can't say the same for the Fischers makes me think that it's more to do with the combination of electrical and mechanical resistance.
I don't understand the physics of the circuit so I cant say if it's mis-labelled or incorrectly described, but it does have an impact on the amplifier's interaction with different loads, and therefore the sound. That's enough for me to know, but I'm not trying to shut down the conversation from those who want the technical explanation. Just sharing a different perspective.

 

[miceblue]

Which LCD-2 are you using? I'm currently listening to a non-Fazor model with a similar serial number as this one that's been measured on Innerfidelity:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2SN5312123.pdf

I didn't really hear that much of a difference between the two modes. Again, MAAAAAAAYBE the 40 mA mode sounds a bit more spacious with the treble, but I don't think I would say it makes a large difference if any.

 

[toxicdrift]

Sorry to jump out of the 20/40 mA discussion.. I got to hear it on a Fazor LCD 2.2 model (on Demo, Locally at a headphone meet) and i think it drives them quite well. I prefer the 40 mA on both the k7xx and the lcd's. I think its a great product by aune, esp at this price point. I wanted to ask u guys about what you think of it compared to your current favorite amps for the LCDs.??

 

[Loquah]

I think it's really excellent with LCDs and it comes so close in sound to my Bottlehead S.E.X. that it's scary. The S.E.X. still wins in terms of subtleties, but it's much closer than it should be.

miceblue the difference to my ears isn't dramatic, but it's enough that I'd say I could pick it blind. I think the innate warmth of LCDs might mask the impact slightly whereas the HD800s showed a more obvious impact to my ears.

 

[DrKC]

B1 review, E12 comparison and
general ramblings Part 2
 
 
Well, I only read only 1 or 2 defensive/combative posts (not unexpected) after my rant in Part 1.  I think those who did well on their "reading for comprehension" tests in school got the general gist of what I was trying to convey.  So, onward with the review.  Oh, one other thing, going forward, if you just want to yell at me or engage in some sort of "well, let's all pull 'em out and drop 'em on the table" exercise, maybe we do that via PM.  Any questions or comments that might be of interest to the group in general, that would be fine as we don't want to muck up the intent of this thread.
 
My reviewing style differs from most of the online reviews I've read in that I'm not really into the Stereophile/TAS use of all the buzzwords.  Do you younger guys talk like that to each other when you get together in person?  I participate in a small group (there's 8 of us) who get together periodically for listening sessions and discussions.  We tend to use a more scientific description of things like bass being tight, having oomph or slam when it's good and being flabby, tubby or loose when it's not.  For upper midrange and treble, we use such precise terms as bright, brittle or the very masculine "tinkly".  Bright can be good or bad depending on a
preceding adjective, brittle is not good and tinkly is good.  We take this stuff seriously.
 
Associated Equipment-
 
Digital frontend -  An older Theta Digital Pearl CD transport, a Counterpoint DA10A 16 bit DAC, a NuForce Dac-100 24 bit DAC and a Lenovo Win 8 laptop for file
playback.  The laptop runs JRMC v20 using the WASAPI mode.  The FLAC files reside on a 256BG, Class 10 SD memory card.  And the Fiio X5 via its line out.
 
Analog - An older VPI HW-19, Mark3 turntable with an SME 309 tone arm, a Benz Micro Glider 1.0mV output cartridge and a Gold Aero db45 Signature preamp.
 
The music I used comes from my LPs, CDs and the files were generated from CD rips using EAC.  The FLACs were generated from those WAV files.  I also have a few digitized LPs and a few HDTracks downloads.
 
The rest of my primary system is a McIntosh C712 preamp, a pair of Classe CA-101 stereo amplifiers biamping a pair of PSB Stratus Goldi loudspeakers.  I use this as my main reference for my evaluations.
 
The B1 was connected directly to the line out of the phono preamp and the DACs.
 
Headphones - Sony MDR-7520, Shure SRH-1840, Beyer DT-880 premiums, 250 Ohms and Sennheiser HD650.  The 650s and 1840s use aftermarket balanced cables with a 4 pin XLR.  For those who are interested, I used an ALO Ref16 adapter to connect these to the B1.
 
The B1 was fully charged and allowed 20 minutes of warm-up before I began my evaluations.
 
Any time I review or evaluate something new, I like to start with that small group of tunes I've listened to for years.  I have expectations when I listen to these - waiting for a guitar riff, a drum crash, a sax solo, a vocal, etc.  These songs affect me - maybe you have a few like that.  I judge my reaction to hearing these songs as my inital baseline for evaluation.  Did they have the impact I expected?  What seemed to be lacking if they didn't.  If it all just falls flat and there's no life to the sound, I usually don't proceed further.  The B1 did OK here, especially with Amanda Mcbroom's "Amanda" (Scheffield Lab).  Her voice, the dynamics in the music -
these give me chiily bumps every time I hear it.  Listening to the live version of "Free Bird" off the One More From the Road LP (MCA) was excellent.  RVZ's vocals were big and out front.  "What song is it you wanna hear?" - this booms out of my primary system and can give me the chills. On headphones, it's not quite the same, but can still have a pronounced impact.  And for a battery-powered amp, as with the E12, the B1 surprised me.
 
The next step is listening for bass extension and the tightness that I prefer and overall treble response.  I'll go to my Patrcica Barber, Cafe Blue CD or LP (Premonition).  This is one well-recorded and mixed album.  There are so many things to experience with this record.  Bass, upper registers, nuances and delicate cymbal work - it's all here. Ms. Barbers vocals can soar at times and depending on the equipment or headphones, it can get somewhat nasty.  Again, it sounds excellent on my primary system.  It's one of those rare records that I can sit in the sweet spot, lights out and feel like I'm there.  The bass drums (timpanis, maybe) on the
Clear and Present Danger soundtrack (single CD version, Milan) are fantastic.  The crescendos will make you jump and the general dynamics of the recording are great.  On to my Boston CD, Third Stage (MoFi,UDCD 582).  The chorus' and arrangement can be rather dense in the upper registers in places such as the opening track "Amanda" (Am I hooked on songs with this title?) and on "Can't You Say (You Believe in Me)".  I've heard the brittle nature that can result from these tracks on certain headphones and a couple of amplfiers, not to mention a certain DAC. In all cases, the B1, like the E12, came through quite well. The CD, Henry Mancini: Music for Peter Gunn from Harmonie Ensemble is another well-recorded piece.  The sizzling horns can be a challenge.  The tracks here all sounded smooth and cool.  This is a fun record that conveys the sense of a smaller ensemble with a big sound.  I was starting to feel pretty good about the amplifier at this point.
 
Next, I put Vivaldi's Four Seasons on the turntable.  This a D2D recording on heavy vinyl.  It's by Interpreti Veneziani and a soloist named Giacobbe Stevanato for those who may know this stuff.  This is primarily a violin piece (6 of them), a Cello, a Double Bass and a harpsichord.  First let me state that as far as classical goes, I'm not in the club.  I have around 8 or 9 albums of classical stuff.  One of the guys in my listening group suggests recordings to me he thinks I might like.  I don't always, but this one is fun.  The recording is superb - maybe that's what I really like - there's enough "air" on this record to fill everybody's beach ball this summer.  The music is vibrant and has an immediacy to it that's hard to describe.  This sounded quite good on the B1.  Another tick in the plus column.
 
I spent a fair amount of time just listening to the amp.  Led Zepplin, the Who, Carly Simon, Deep Purple (made in Japan is a hoot), Eric Clapton (Just One Night is superb), a little Carol King and as a nod to the EDM crowd, The Donna Summer Anthology (2 CD, Chronicles).  It's got a driving drum machine, some programmed synth and of course, Ms. Summer's dynamic vocals.  Let's call it EDM light with excessive vocals.  It proved to be an enjoyable experience.  I usually don't listen in a hyper-critical mode - that wears me out.  Just listening is what I normally do.
 
 
And the final test - my wife.  She's been listening to the E12 for about 6 weeks with the X5 and her beloved HD650s.  I ask her to substitute the B1 and listen for a couple of days.  As I noted, she's a pretty astute listener and she knows what she likes.  The B1's final destination was with her, so I might as well find out.  After a couple days she came back and said "It'll do".  I'm like "Whoa!  That's it?"  She smiled and said that she really liked it.  I then probed for her opinion versus the E12.  She said there really wasn't that much difference - certainly not anything that jumped out.  She listened in the 20mA position with just the HD650s.
 
Well, OK.  I had my E12 back.  Mission accomplished.  I was fat, dumb and happy again.  End of story.  Not quite.
 
I started out listening through the Sony's.  They have IEM-like specs - a nominal impedance of 24 Ohms and a sensitivty of 108db/mW.  I usually use these to check for noise on anything new.  They are very efficient and present an easy drive for amps.  I noticed almost immediately that the bass was a little bloomy, not quite tubby but not what I expected.  The only other time I've heard them sound like this was with my Schiit Valhalla. The Valhalla has a spec'd output impedance of 3.5 Ohms in the low gain position.  It has a measured impedance (on mine anyway) of 4 Ohms.  I could only speculate that this was causing some interaction with the low impedance of the headphones.  The behavior of the 7520s with the B1 seemed like-wise related.  So, it's something to consider if you have low impedance phones.
 
I moved on to the 650s since these were my target.  I listened to the B1 in the 20mA position and in the 40mA position.  There were no real differences between the B1 and the E12.  I felt relieved when my wife echoed those observations.  But things were about to change.
 
Next came the Shure SRH-1840s.  I knew these would be somewhat different.  I don't think anyone has ever accused 650s of being overly bright.  The 1840s are a different story. I've always liked the 1840s ability to render high frequency detail.  My wife isn't crazy about them, but then again, her hearing still extends beyond 18kHz.  I immediately noticed some differences in the upper registers on the Vivaldi LP.  It wasn't dramatic, but I believed it was there.  I wasn't expecting it after what I had heard so far and I wasn't looking for it either.  Now, what was this?  Back to my Cafe Blue CD and LP.  Time to put on the Nardis track.  I was working hard at this point, because I wanted to know what I was hearing or sensing.  I began to realize that it was a slight increase in detail - a bit more refinement.  I checked some of my more mudane recordings.  It just wasn't "there" to any significant degree.  I went to some of my better recordings - Cat Steven's Teaser and the Firecat (MoFi UDCD 649) and my best LP of it, a Japanese import.  Yes, it was there.  So, there was some difference between the amps.  Next, I wanted to see if the 40mA switch would have an effect. It had not changed anything before with the 650s or the Sonys.  I powered down and slid the switch.  Power up and here we go.  Again, I sensed a little difference - maybe just a bit more pronounced in the 40mA position, again only in the upper registers on excellent recordings.
 
As luck would have it, last weekend was one of our little audio gatherings.  One of the guys had laid his hands on one of the new Schiit Yggy DACS and wanted us all to come over to his place.  I'm thinking Mike's wife must have been relieved because we were planning on having it at his house.  Not that any of us smell bad or have excessive flatulence, but we do act like kids sometimes and play the music too loud.  When I walked in, opened my case and pulled out the E12, everyone was watching and then the B1 followed.  There was a collective groan.  We've all learned that our little group is a much more effective wallet-lightener than any magazine or online forum.  It seems somebody always has some little goody we all can't do without.  Steve has a very nice system and a dedicated room with treatments for his system.  (There must be good money in that neurosurgery business)  The Yggy would have to wait.  I wanted these guys to listen to the B1 and see if anybody was hearing anything different between it and the E12 and if so, what.  I offered no hints or tried to steer anyone in any direction.  I brought the 1840s and my recordings.  I felt like Steve's Avid turntable and his PS Audio DAC (we did use the Yggy a little) were up to the task.  I asked everyone to say nothing but write down their thoughts or impressions.  There was a lot E12/B1 swapping, so no it wasn't perfect, but I've learned to trust what these guys hear - some after listening together for almost 45 years.
 
 
The results are as follows - 3 didn't hear any real difference, 1 mentioned differences in the high frequencies, but not anything specific, more of a sense than anything and 2 noted that it seemed to generally be nuances in the upper frequencies, but not on every recording.  OK, I wasn't totally crazy, someone else heard it too.
 
 
So, in a nutshell, the E12 and B1 sound generally the same - that is, quite good overall and very good for a portable amp.  If you feed your amp with a steady diet of well-recorded classical and close-miked jazz tracks and you tend to listen with a somewhat critical ear, then the B1 has something above the E12 to offer.
 
As to which one offers the best value proposition, it's up to you.  The B1 costs more, runs warmer and has less battery life than the E12, but can offer some enhancement over the E12 depending on the recording and your headphones.  It's going to come down to what you value in the selection of your amp.  Depending on your intended use, I don't think you can go wrong with either amp.
 
As always, the review represents what I heard with a little help from my friends and my opinions.  My taste in music, what I listen for, my equipment, etc may or may not coincide with your habits or situation.  I hope some can take away something useful from the review.  These things can be exhausting at times, but also a nice challenge.  If you're shopping for an amp, do try to audition it for yourself if you can.  How something sounds to you is far more important and relevant than any of these reviews.
 
 
Thanks for reading
DrKC

 

[DrKC]

I listen to pure pink noise for all my reviews!

In relation to the 20/40 question, I have no doubt after extensive listening that it is having an impact on the sound, but it's very load dependent. The in position was clearly better with LCD 2 and HD800 (fuller sound with better bass and more focussed mids), made limited difference with Fischer FA-011 LEs, and was actually less enjoyable with Thinksound On1s. In each case, except the Fischers I would confidently say that the differences could be picked in a blind test. The fact that I can't say the same for the Fischers makes me think that it's more to do with the combination of electrical and mechanical resistance.
I don't understand the physics of the circuit so I cant say if it's mis-labelled or incorrectly described, but it does have an impact on the amplifier's interaction with different loads, and therefore the sound. That's enough for me to know, but I'm not trying to shut down the conversation from those who want the technical explanation. Just sharing a different perspective.

From what I have seen, the load has little or no effect on it.  I was preconditioning the B1 for 90 hours and the power consumption did not change when different headphones were used.  When the amp was set in the 40mA position, the battery lasted 5 hours regards of whether a pair of Sony MDR-7520s, HE-560s or nothing was connected to the output.  The power is being consumed internally in the B1.  There's lots of speculation about the switch and its seems most of it is wrong.  Until Aune decides to reveal what's going on, we're not going to know with any certainty.  I emailed them twice asking that question.  I've yet to get an answer.  You try it - maybe they'll tell you.  I'd really hate to see someone's incorrect speculation become the accepted answer to this question.  Damn, I want to know what's really going on.  From an engineering background, this sort of thing bugs me.  It is an advertised feature with an implied benefit.  So... what the hell does it really do?

 

[avitron142]

.