Audioengine/dac question.

[davidcotton]

Hi

Atm using mac mini, and audioengines a2. Was just wondering if a dac (usb or otherwise)would help in the sound here? Atm I am using the line out from the mini into the audioengine a2s.

If so any recommendations? No budget as such, just curious right now.

Cheers

 

[episiarch]

I don't feel a separate DAC is a worthwhile investment with those speakers.

I have those speakers, and a MacBook Pro (late-2008 17" non-unibody). I started out with the speakers plugged in to a HeadAmp Pico USB DAC/amp, and later switched to plugging them straight into the laptop's audio-out. I didn't hear a difference between the two sources, though I admit I didn't test rigorously enough to assert that they sound exactly the same. What I can tell you for sure is that my sonic enjoyment didn't change at all between the one source and the other.

Something else to keep in mind is that most DACs will not respond to the USB master volume command -- that is, the Mac's up/down volume controls will not affect the DAC's output level. That means you'll generally have to adjust the speaker volume with the speaker's own volume control which (for the benefit of anybody reading who doesn't already own AE2's) is inconveniently located on the back of one speaker. (Or, if you drive them from a DAC/amp like the Pico, you can adjust the volume with the amp's volume control. But in any case, the Mac volume control won't work on the speakers, which is part of the reason I moved them from the Pico to the onboard sound.)

For what it's worth, I don't really like the AudioEngine A2 speakers. They push the "look how much pseudo-bass you can get out of these little boxes!" angle so hard that to my ears the midrange was horribly dropped out and congested, and the highs were a good deal too dim for my taste. With very aggressive EQ I was able to make them sound sorta OK -- again, to my ears, your mileage will vary -- but I never really grew fond of them. I'm running some different speakers now. I mention this in case by 'help the sound' you are indicating a dissatisfaction with the A2's similar to mine. If that is the case, then the answer is a solid NO, a DAC doesn't change the signature of these speakers.

 

[roker]

Couldn't disagree with episiarch more. I've tried the A2s with 2 DACs and each time the difference was OBVIOUS. I don't know about the Pico, but when I put my Fubar II on them the dynamics improved as did the midrange. I was like going from digital to analog, nice open space in between beautiful dynamics.

I'm not sure about other USB Dacs, but the Fubar II DOES allow volume control from the comptuer as well. The A2s are a fun speaker set and great buy at 200 bucks.

 

[cbbw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by episiarch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't feel a separate DAC is a worthwhile investment with those speakers. I have those speakers, and a MacBook Pro (late-2008 17" non-unibody). I started out with the speakers plugged in to a HeadAmp Pico USB DAC/amp, and later switched to plugging them straight into the laptop's audio-out. I didn't hear a difference between the two sources, though I admit I didn't test rigorously enough to assert that they sound exactly the same. What I can tell you for sure is that my sonic enjoyment didn't change at all between the one source and the other. Something else to keep in mind is that most DACs will not respond to the USB master volume command -- that is, the Mac's up/down volume controls will not affect the DAC's output level. That means you'll generally have to adjust the speaker volume with the speaker's own volume control which (for the benefit of anybody reading who doesn't already own AE2's) is inconveniently located on the back of one speaker. (Or, if you drive them from a DAC/amp like the Pico, you can adjust the volume with the amp's volume control. But in any case, the Mac volume control won't work on the speakers, which is part of the reason I moved them from the Pico to the onboard sound.) For what it's worth, I don't really like the AudioEngine A2 speakers. They push the "look how much pseudo-bass you can get out of these little boxes!" angle so hard that to my ears the midrange was horribly dropped out and congested, and the highs were a good deal too dim for my taste. With very aggressive EQ I was able to make them sound sorta OK -- again, to my ears, your mileage will vary -- but I never really grew fond of them. I'm running some different speakers now. I mention this in case by 'help the sound' you are indicating a dissatisfaction with the A2's similar to mine. If that is the case, then the answer is a solid NO, a DAC doesn't change the signature of these speakers.

I would have agreed with the above assessment a few weeks ago. Much better than the throw away units but not the glimmer of high-end like I hear now. Wife was not really happy with the 'stands' at first but after hearing a few tunes she said they are staying put.

I recently re-positioned the little guys, off the desk, and they sound like a totally different speaker; more so than any difference noted in positioning of a speaker. I have them about 11" off the back wall, 8" off the desk and angled about 12 degrees. Bass is still limited but has decent definition and most of the boom is gone. The mid-band has clarity and there is some detail in the highs. Also they seem to be more dynamic and a sound stage exists.

Tough to get a speaker to sound good placed on a desk but I can see that with some tweaking the full potential has not yet been achieved on my desk.

 

[Aiml3ss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roker /img/forum/go_quote.gif Couldn't disagree with episiarch more. I've tried the A2s with 2 DACs and each time the difference was OBVIOUS. I don't know about the Pico, but when I put my Fubar II on them the dynamics improved as did the midrange. I was like going from digital to analog, nice open space in between beautiful dynamics. I'm not sure about other USB Dacs, but the Fubar II DOES allow volume control from the comptuer as well. The A2s are a fun speaker set and great buy at 200 bucks.

X2. I couldn't believe the improvement my Musiland gave to my headphones (AD700, UE3, hell even bose).

So in theory, this should apply to the A2's. Hopefully I will be buying some A5's in the next week or two so I'll let you know but I am 99% sure that you will hear an improvement with a DAC.

 

[Kobra]

I also have the A2's and I'm happy with them. I haven't tried them with a dedicated DAC yet ( current setup is either desktop PC with Asus Xonar DX or headphone out of my MacBook Pro). But what I have done over the past year is perfecting their placement. There's A LOT to gain in proper placement, most gain is in elevating and isolating them from your desk as "cbbw" has done in his post above. I found a mini monitor stand that elevates my A2's to a hight of 11". I've noticed that a slight toe out improves in imaging, but be careful not to over do it as you can lose out in stereo coherence. About six months ago I got a NuForce W-1 subwoofer wich blends in nicely, it gives a little bit of extra definition to the lower bass.

My next step would be to experiment with some sound deadening material, much like "Cbbw" has done. Actually, I'd like to know more about those grey pads on the wall...

 

[DeusEx]

They're so....................cute...!

 

[cbbw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobra /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also have the A2's and I'm happy with them. I haven't tried them with a dedicated DAC yet ( current setup is either desktop PC with Asus Xonar DX or headphone out of my MacBook Pro). But what I have done over the past year is perfecting their placement. There's A LOT to gain in proper placement, most gain is in elevating and isolating them from your desk as "cbbw" has done in his post above. I found a mini monitor stand that elevates my A2's to a hight of 11". I've noticed that a slight toe out improves in imaging, but be careful not to over do it as you can lose out in stereo coherence. About six months ago I got a NuForce W-1 subwoofer wich blends in nicely, it gives a little bit of extra definition to the lower bass. My next step would be to experiment with some sound deadening material, much like "Cbbw" has done. Actually, I'd like to know more about those grey pads on the wall...

Not trying to derail the thread as I believe the A2's have the resolving power if properly set up to appreciate higher quality DAC's. Can't imagine the small wire connecting the sound card to the speakers is doing us any favors either.

Kobra, please share your set up, width and distance from the back wall. I have mine nearly straight ahead, very slight toe in and 30" apart, forming an approximate equilateral triangle with the listener. Do we need to start a desktop speaker set up thread?

The panels are stolen from my sound room and are 4' Echo Busters, may not be made any more. Suppose these type panels could be made as I have made panels before.

Anyone notice the 1/2 a meter of AQ Lapis in the pictures looking for a DAC?

 

[Kobra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbbw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kobra, please share your set up, width and distance from the back wall. I have mine nearly straight ahead, very slight toe in and 30" apart, forming an approximate equilateral triangle with the listener.

I have my desk in the corner of a room (I know it's not optimal, but sometimes life and wife dictates conditions that you need to adapt to... ). My desk is made for corner placement so it's right up to the wall. The NuForce W-1 Subwoofer is placed in the space between the back of my desktop LCD and the wall, it's a triangular space that's about 20" at the base and about 20" base to top (I hope you understand what I mean by that). My A2's are 30" apart and about 30" to 40" away from me. Their distance to the side walls are 10". The corner of the walls are about 60" away from me (it's a deep corner desk)

This space works fine, but I had some tuning to do before I got the subwoofer to interact with the walls without being to strong. What I would need now is some sound deadening material on the walls behind my screen to control the reflections. What's kept me from it? ...my wife

Quote:

Do we need to start a desktop speaker set up thread?

Not a bad idea!

Quote:

The panels are stolen from my sound room and are 4' Echo Busters, may not be made any more. Suppose these type panels could be made as I have made panels before.

One of my local Hi-Fi stores has a service were they will print a picture on a sound deadening material, the result looks just like a regular painting or print (depending on what picture you provide). I've been ogling that service for some time, that might be something I can sneak in under the "Wife Radar" ...

 

[roker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbbw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do we need to start a desktop speaker set up thread?

That's my preferred listening method for great audio. Headphones are my after hours and on-the-go fix.

 

[Kobra]

I couldn't agree more. Though I like the privacy you get while using headphones, nothing beats the soundstage and the physical feeling that a good speaker set gives you. I've started to enjoy the intimacy from a desktop setup more and more. I like the A2's as they are at their best at a decent SPL that wont wake up the neighbourhood

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiml3ss /img/forum/go_quote.gif X2. I couldn't believe the improvement my Musiland gave to my headphones (AD700, UE3, hell even bose). So in theory, this should apply to the A2's. Hopefully I will be buying some A5's in the next week or two so I'll let you know but I am 99% sure that you will hear an improvement with a DAC.

I'd be careful applying generalities across equipment. Also the A5s have more resolving power than the A2s.

 

[127299]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roker /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure about other USB Dacs, but the Fubar II DOES allow volume control from the comptuer as well. The A2s are a fun speaker set and great buy at 200 bucks.

I was wondering whether the Fubar II you used was a powered DAC or without the power supply addon?

I just purchased myself a pair of A2s so I was wondering which DAC I should buy. One of my considerations was the Prodigy Cube DAC from Korea which can be had for about 120 a piece. However, it isn't powered so I'm not sure whether it would or not affect the sound quality.

AFAIK the A2 are an active set of speakers that doesn't need an amp so does it mean that the DAC doesn't have to be powered as well?

I'm just a noob at this. Really learning as I go along.

Thanks!

 

[cbbw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiefhr /img/forum/go_quote.gif AFAIK the A2 are an active set of speakers that doesn't need an amp so does it mean that the DAC doesn't have to be powered as well? I'm just a noob at this. Really learning as I go along.

How the DAC is powered does not effect if or how it will function.

Which DAC is a tougher question and we are all learning as we go!

Jitter technology needs to be sorted out at much lower price points.

 

[vjack]

I have a pair of A5s connected to my iMac. I've been thinking I may soon add an Apogee Duet between them. It looks like I should first figure out a way to elevate my A5s. They are sitting on the desk right now.