[halcyon]

Is the W2002 the only Audio Technica cable that has a separate wire going to each headphone cup?

It looks like all the other current models have a wire only going to the one side. Am I right?

In most cases this means a three cable construction with a shared ground. This can result (esp. with low impedance headphones) the signal from one channel coming back the wire of the other channel at inverted phase and reduced level.

Shared ground means that the channel crosstalk in the cable is going to be higher. In some cable geometries the crosstalk products could be only -30 dB below the signal level.

This can adversely affect sound quality, so I'm really interested in this.

I previously asked the same about Sony MDR CD3000. I found out (with the gracious help from bakhtiar) that it has a signal cable going to one cup only and the ground connection is shared between the channels.

I don't have crosstalk measurements for this headphone, but for Sony MDR V6 the crosstalk noise is quite bad (from audiophile / testing perspective). MDR-V6 has a measured impedance of roughly 63 Ohm. The upcoming W1000 has even lower impedance at 40 Ohms, so it might be even more susceptible to shared ground induced crosstalk.

I don't want to put down W1000 (I'm considering it myself), but this fact is slightly discomforting me. Of course, the final proof is in the pudding and not in theoretical speculation

I also found out that even most basic level sound cards offer crosstalk immunity of at least -80 dB throughout the whole audio band. This can be considred sufficient for most basic audio playback purposes, but perhaps not for recording/testing/archiving.

However, if the headphone cord and ground connections bring the crosstalk immunity to only -30 dB, it can be clearly audible even on very basic audio gear. That is, you don't need to be a 'golden ear' or to have high end equipment to hear this effect.

Please note also that this crosstalk is NOT similar and in some cases desirable like the crossfeed type crosstalk built into some headamps. Cable crosstalk is always detrimental to sound quality.

Best regards,
Halcyon

Refs:

1) Auditory mailing list measurement data for Sony MDR V6 headphone cable induced crosstalk

2) Crosstalk measurements for common sound cards at Digit-Life

3) Images of MDR CD3000 internal wire connections

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Halcyon,

Thanks for the post and info to look out for. I should have a set of these cans in about the 11th of December once I return from visiting my parents in MD for a while. I will see if they have a single shared ground or not. I hope not, or that they sound good in spite of them being shared!!!

You would think they knew what they were doing, but if not they might lose out on a large number of sales on these cans!!!

 

[halcyon]

Single shared ground is not always a problem, but in a noisy environment, certain type of shielding in the cable AND with a long cable (say 3 meters) it *can* be.

Yes, they probably know what they are doing, but I just want to make sure that the high quality of these headphones (or what I'm anticipating to be high quality) is not compromised by sub-par cabling and grounding issues.

I'd be delighted if you could tell me your findings when you receive the cans.

regards,
Halcyon

PS My Sennheiser HD-590s also have a three wire cable and shared ground and to my ears they sound fine in terms of channel separation issues. Then again my ears are hardly a final say on anything except my own perception

 

[Calanctus]

halcyon, thanks for this post. I hope you stick around here, as I've found your posts so far to be very interesting and informative.

What does crosstalk sound like--is there any special sonic signature to look for, in order to know whether you are hearing it?

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by Calanctus What does crosstalk sound like--is there any special sonic signature to look for, in order to know whether you are hearing it?

I hate to butt in and post here after the question was asked of Halcyon, but I have some experience here so I wanted to pipe in with a response.

With headphones I find it had at times so separate what is coming pure left from pure right under these circumstances, and decide on things like crossfeed problems and such, so I tried to figure out a way to make the test valid.

So far the easiest way is to remove one input RCA to the headphone amp, and listen with both headphones on. You should only get sound on one side, but since the cans are still plugged in to the amp you should be able to detect anything coming thru the opposite, unconnected, channel. In order to check for low levels of crossfeed that shoudln't be there, remove the ear piece that is still connected from your head and turn up the volume and listen for sounds coming thru. By eliiminsating the other driver from you head you remove the possibility of your brain tricking your ears into thinking the sound is coming into both ears and such!!!

To verify that this isn't crossfeed coming from the amp itself, you should try this on a couple of different souces like the output of a receiver, different amp, different cans that specifically have two cables without a shared ground, etc.