[Pianist]

  From the comparison of the MSR7, R70x and X2, the MSR7 are the most analytical, R70x the most neutral and the the X2 the most fun of the three. It really depends what you're looking for. If you have the MSR7 and you add an open back while reducing the treble and upper midrange you will essentially have a R70x. How the AT are able to utilize this much from a 45mm driver while everybody else is using 50+mm drivers (except for the HP50 and maybe some others) is beyond my understanding. Currently the MSR7 (for me) are a closed back alternative to the R70x. Honestly, I would prefer the closed back version of the R70x because their comfort is unmatched. However I like the more metallic sound of the cymbals from the MSR7 and female vocals are just extraordinary.

 
Thanks for the comparison. I am becoming more and more interested in the R70x.

 

[oopeteroo]

msr7 vs r70x who wins for female vocal ?

 

[woodpecker]

msr7 vs r70x who wins for female vocal ?

Without a single doubt - the MSR7! With the R70x male and female vocals sounds balanced.
 
Think of the R70x as the more natural/accurate Fidelio X2 with a bit more focused soundstage. R70x are monitor headphones, designed for objective listening. It's quite difficult to say where R70x excel, because they are so neutral. Nothing is emphasized, they just sound right. You can say a lot about the MSR7, they have this and that, the upper midrange is emphasized and so on... With the R70x, well, they're like headphones in their purest form, before the tuning process where you add or reduce things. Even their construction is minimal.

 

[FullBright1]

 
Without a single doubt - the MSR7! With the R70x male and female vocals sounds balanced.
 
Think of the R70x as the more natural/accurate Fidelio X2 with a bit more focused soundstage. R70x are monitor headphones, designed for objective listening. It's quite difficult to say where R70x excel, because they are so neutral. Nothing is emphasized, they just sound right. You can say a lot about the MSR7, they have this and that, the upper midrange is emphasized and so on... With the R70x, well, they're like headphones in their purest form, before the tuning process where you add or reduce things. Even their construction is minimal.

 
Yes, the R70x sound very natural, and in fact are phenomenal headphones.
Nothing in their sound is elevated or punched and everything in their sound is accurate and balanced and highly resolved.
Very comfortable also.
It is definitely an AT Flagship / Reference model and its crazy affordable regarding the sound it offers.

 

[jon parker]

  So, to answer your question, the R70X's are a very faithful and accurate set of studio monitors for your ears, and i've mixed on them because you can trust them, especially in the mids and the low bass, which is basically (no pun intended) unheard of regarding mixing on headphones which usually tends to be a "good luck with that" experience.......until these headphones.
They really are special.

 hi  -Just listening to my new pair of At MSR7's out of the box - pre-burn in and Im super impressed
Anyway I was curious as I also work in a recording / mastering studio - If the MSR7's are not quite as good as R70X's for audio work due to the explanation you gave - In your experience what would be the good and bad of using the MSR7's for mixing / mastering - benefits / shortcomings. just curious

 

[Pianist]

   hi  -Just listening to my new pair of At MSR7's out of the box - pre-burn in and Im super impressed
Anyway I was curious as I also work in a recording / mastering studio - If the MSR7's are not quite as good as R70X's for audio work due to the explanation you gave - In your experience what would be the good and bad of using the MSR7's for mixing / mastering - benefits / shortcomings. just curious

 
I don't do recording, but I can say that MSR7 is not ideal for recording, because it's not neutral. There's a definite emphasis in the upper midrange around 800Hz-2kHz. This will likely mean that you won't be able to get your mids right in the mix, or at least it will be harder to do than with a more neutral headphone. If you get used to the sound, it may work fine though, depending on how experienced you at recording. At least, that's what I heard. MSR7 may be great for pro use though, because of its extreme clarity and resolution. It let's you hear everything on the recording with perfect focus. MSR7 is one of very few headphone I've heard where I don't detect even the slightest hint of muffling or muddiness anywhere - it's absolutely clear, as far as I am concerned. Other than that bump in the upper mids, MSR7 is also quite neutral actually, and well extended on both ends of the FR spectrum. Brilliant headphone.

 

[jon parker]

 

   hi  -Just listening to my new pair of At MSR7's out of the box - pre-burn in and Im super impressed
Anyway I was curious as I also work in a recording / mastering studio - If the MSR7's are not quite as good as R70X's for audio work due to the explanation you gave - In your experience what would be the good and bad of using the MSR7's for mixing / mastering - benefits / shortcomings. just curious

 
I don't do recording, but I can say that MSR7 is not ideal for recording, because it's not neutral. There's a definite emphasis in the upper midrange around 800Hz-2kHz. This will likely mean that you won't be able to get your mids right in the mix, or at least it will be harder to do than with a more neutral headphone. If you get used to the sound, it may work fine though, depending on how experienced you at recording. At least, that's what I heard. MSR7 may be great for pro use though, because of its extreme clarity and resolution. It let's you hear everything on the recording with perfect focus. MSR7 is one of very few headphone I've heard where I don't detect even the slightest hint of muffling or muddiness anywhere - it's absolutely clear, as far as I am concerned. Other than that bump in the upper mids, MSR7 is also quite neutral actually, and well extended on both ends of the FR spectrum. Brilliant headphone.

 
Thanks - pretty much what i thought. I record, master and sometimes mix although mostly I record and master voice (much easier than music!) Im certainly going to try them for the final pre-edit stage before mastering. If they can pick up the lip smacks, breath and tummy rumbles then they will get a bit more use than just music
 
I agree with your thoughts - my main first impressions are simply 'Yes, they got it right on these' Ive also just bought the Oppo PM3 - I think they are a great complimentory pair each having qualities the other lacks in! 
Thanks x
 
you've got my sights on the R70x's now as well

 

[chongky]

Between MSR7 and R70x which is more resolving (i.e. has better detail retrieval)? Thank you in advance.

 

[FullBright1]

  Between MSR7 and R70x which is more resolving (i.e. has better detail retrieval)? Thank you in advance.

 
 
The R70X is a much bettter headphone then the MSR7.
 
The MSR7 is a very good headphone that has a certain punched overall brightness that allows for very pristine sound, but its not a natural sound, is an EQ'd sound that is very present and very very articulate, and very good.
The R70x is an audiophile sound where nothing is heightened or scooped or faked.
So, if you like a "treble" or "Bass" sounding headphone, then dont get the R70x, as it does not do "fake".
But if you want an audiophile sound, and understand what this is, then you'll love the R70x.
Give them a little break in, then you are audiophile home.

 

[woodpecker]

  Between MSR7 and R70x which is more resolving (i.e. has better detail retrieval)? Thank you in advance.

For detail retrieval - it would be the MSR7 (easily). However, the soundstage "layering" is better on the R70x.

 

[FullBright1]

 
For detail retrieval - it would be the MSR7 (easily). However, the soundstage "layering" is better on the R70x.

 
The Detail retrieval you are suggesting comes only because the MSR7s have been EQ'd to be bright, which of course allows for the slightly fake - extended- "articulation".
But if you need that then get the R70xs and just increase the 5khz-10kHz on your fav player's EQ and you can have it all day and all night for as long as you like.
But if you want balance and no fake'd high end that gives you false "detail retrieval" as the expense of audiophile natural sound, then get the R70x's.

 

[Pianist]

MSR7 does sound a bit hyped and artificial due to its very forward presentation, the boost in the upper mids and a lack of soundstage, especially compared to decent open headphones. However, it's still a highly resolving, clear and tight sounding headphone. The bass, in particular, is extremely tight and well defined on the MSR7 - some of the best bass out there - and the highs are just pristine and, again, some of the best I've ever heard. My HD600 sounds more natural, but MSR7 has the edge in clarity, control and speed. I think MSR7 represents the most technically capable sound you can get at under $500 or perhaps even under $1k. I wouldn't consider any of the sub $1k headphones I tried to be more technically capable than MSR7. For a balanced and natural sound, however, many better options exist. The aformentioned HD600 is more natural sounding than MSR7 and I am sure that so is the R70x. Open headphones, in general, sound more natural and, often, more neutral, even and dynamic. I would actually rate HD600 above MSR7 in overall sound quality because HD600 sounds significantly, more open, more dynamic, more neutral and even, despite lacking a bit in certain technical aspects vs. MSR7. There are headphones, including HD600, that are as resolving and refined, or even more so, than MSR7, but don't sound as clear and controlled. I am considering the overall performance here. For a closed headphone, MSR7 is definitely one of the best. There are still more natural sounding closed headphones, like NAD HP50 or Focal Classic, but I think MSR7 has those and most other closed backs beat in technicalities.
 
In sum, I would say that MSR7 has the best clarity, focus and control I've heard in headphones - there's absolutely no sign of any muddiness or sloppiness to be found with this headphone. Even my HD800 seems a bit soft compared to MSR7 and not quite as razor sharp. MSR7 is also one of the fastest headphones - its transients are amazing and can even beat out planars IMO. In other aspects of sound, MSR7 is not quite so great, but still at least very good, especially in its price range. IMO, most open backs in MSR7s price range sound nicer, more natural overall. However, at what it does best, MSR7 is nearly unbeatable IMO. I guess one can say that MSR7 is a pretty specialized headphone, although that's not really true because it does everything acceptably. Although, it's certainly not an all-arounder either.
 

  The Detail retrieval you are suggesting comes only because the MSR7s have been EQ'd to be bright, which of course allows for the slightly fake - extended- "articulation".
But if you need that then get the R70xs and just increase the 5khz-10kHz on your fav player's EQ and you can have it all day and all night for as long as you like.
But if you want balance and no fake'd high end that gives you false "detail retrieval" as the expense of audiophile natural sound, then get the R70x's.

 
I agree about fake detail on the MSR7. I think it does push some details too forward. However, MSR7 is definitely not bright in the 5-10 kHz area. It's quite neutral in the treble. MSR7's coloration is in the upper midrange around 800Hz-2kHz. Other than that, I think the headphone is pretty neutral.

 

[FullBright1]

   
 
 
I agree about fake detail on the MSR7. I think it does push some details too forward. However, MSR7 is definitely not bright in the 5-10 kHz area. It's quite neutral in the treble. MSR7's coloration is in the upper midrange around 800Hz-2kHz. Other than that, I think the headphone is pretty neutral.

 
 
Unfortunately you are wrong about the ATECH MSR7s, not being "bright" in the high end.
Listen, didnt you say they are bright?
Well, do you think they are bright in the bass response
Surely you know that "bright" occurs above 1kHz, and for a headphone to be labeled as " bright" its because the trebles are not natural, as natural does not sound bright.
So, yes, the MSR7s, are bright, as their treble is extended in a way that is not accurate, but even so, they are a very very good headphone, if you like bright sounding headphones that sound really very good.
The Blue Mo-Fi sound as good, but they are like wearing a football helmet., but other then those, the Yamaha Pro 400s sound very similar but have a much larger bass response.
Now if you want a better sounding headphone other then the R70x, which also sounds better then the MSR7, then run directly to the Fostex TH500-RP, but be sure to bring your wallet.

 

[Pianist]

   
 
Unfortunately you are wrong about the ATECH MSR7s, not being "bright" in the high end.
Listen, didnt you say they are bright?
Well, do you think they are bright in the bass response
Surely you know that "bright" occurs above 1kHz, and for a headphone to be labeled as " bright" its because the trebles are not natural, as natural does not sound bright.
So, yes, the MSR7s, are bright, as their treble is extended in a way that is not accurate, but even so, they are a very very good headphone, if you like bright sounding headphones that sound really very good.

Sure, brightness is emphasis at around 1 kHz or higher. Makes sense. Lower frequencies give body/fullness and warmth, not brightness. MSR7 is indeed bright because it emphasizes the 800Hz-2 kHz region, although I think emphasis in this region is more "shoutiness" or hardness than brightness. The bass IMO, is actually a bit lean on the MSR7. That's because I think that headphones need a few dB of gradual boost below 500 Hz or so to sound as natural as good speakers in a room. That is I support the Harman response curve for headphones. Because the bass is subjectively a bit lean, the treble stands out a bit. However, I still don't think the 2kHz+ region is bright, especially considering that relative to the diffuse-field response, MSR7 is close to neutral in the high and low end.

 

[JungleApe]

 
However, I still don't think the 2kHz+ region is bright

That's the core of your posting. You describe your subjective experiences with the MSR-7. However it might sound bright to other persons due to different anatomical factors (resonance of the ear canal). The MSRs upper mids are indeed a bit forward compared to other frequencies which is also shown by the measurements of the frequency response.