[Ishcabible]

Wait, didn't you say a while ago the DX700s were WAY overpriced compared to the AD700s, most likely because they share the 700?

I thought you finally bought them. See what happens when you wait so long?

 

[jageur272]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif You may think me standing on a soapbox looking down but we are all fools with our money. It's just that some are greater fools than others. I'm the kind of fool who considers $100 my limit for headphones. Anything beyond that limit isn't worth it to me. I only expanded my limit beyond $20 because the $20 ones are uncomfortable enough for me to consider them unwearable. The only reason the nice headphones are as expensive as they are is because people will pay that price for them. If no one bought them, they wouldn't cost that much. The price fluctuations are a good representation of this. If people universally refused to pay over a certain amount for an item, you would never see anything priced above that amount.

Of course, you list your extensive experience with these setups. Don't knock it before you try it . There is a substantial difference between an HD580 and an HD555, I think it warrants the price difference. Although I do agree that $500 cables are just overkill. Personally, Blue Jeans Cable is the way to go in my opinion. No fish oil, just straight up explanations on what they do.

 

[LordZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjrabon /img/forum/go_quote.gif What you typically see is the company selling for a large amount upfront, to make sure they recover their R&D costs. The R&D costs are covered by the "early adopters" who just have to be on the leading edge of technology and will gladly pay more to be on the leading edge. Later, after the R&D costs are covered, you'll see the price drop to near the cost of production + a reasonable profit. The funny part is that the headphone maker is usually operating at a loss until well into the period where they have lowered the price. But they'd likely never get out of the red if they spent as much on R&D as they do, but still sold at the lower price.

If that's how it always worked then nothing would be cheap when it first comes out.

For one, why is the research so expensive? A lot of them assume they'll just unload the costs on the consumer so they allow themselves to waste money on excess and failures. Further, how many headphones do you think they'll sell at the $1000+ price tags vs >$100 price tags? You and I both know it doesn't cost them that much to make each set of headphones. If they scaled down the price to closer to the actual cost of making it, they could easily make back the cost of research by selling a lot more headphones than by selling a few of them at extreme prices. If those $1000+ headphones are as great as people think they are, then people would snatch them up in massive numbers compared to who'll buy them at those crazy prices. Honestly, this tactic of starting at such extreme prices is more about greed than smart business practices.

I'm not trying to be mean to the people who buy this over priced crap but anyone with common sense can see price gouging for what it is. It's why I mentioned the case of charging $500 for a $5 cable. I've seen people charge hundreds for so called high end cables that really aren't any better than a decently made but cheap one. It's a lot harder to argue the "added value" of a $500 cable that performs measurably the same as the $5 one. Once you get a person to see one example of price gouging, you've taken off those blinders enough that they might start seeing it in other places.

 

[LeonWho]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shouldn't we just raise some money and get him an ATH-AD700 to put these sorts of threads to rest?

don't. he'll just sell them, then make 20 other threads asking what next to upgrade to.

that's what happened with the scl4's in the iem forum.

 

[rds]

also love it when the junior high kids explain economics and then advise what large successful companies should really be doing to be profitable

 

[itsjustwood]

ouch...

these forums hurt!

 

[KONAKONA]

Hmm, wonder if he is actually gonna buy it this time?

POPCORNPOPCORNPOPCORNPOPCORN

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif also love it when the junior high kids explain economics and then advise what large successful companies should really be doing to be profitable

Don't dis the younger crowd man, it hurts.

 

[userlander]

Actually I think LordZ makes some good points, even if maybe he is overstating it a little with the "price gouging."

But say a manufacturer already has a few mid-priced phones. At some point I have to think it hurts their returns to make another one in the same class. What's the market? It just eats into existing sales, or spreads out the likely sales over a few more phones.

On the other hand, if you can create a market for a "high-end" $1000-1500 headphone (which probably doesn't cost much more to make than the mid-fi cans), you keep your existing market for the mid-fi gear in place, while now adding a new revenue generator. Especially when the HD6xx line is apparently still doing really well, why upset that apple cart? Let that keep going while you develop the "high end" gear, then perhaps turn your attention to a new "mid-fi" upgrade when the HD6xx luster starts fading a little.

It's brilliant marketing, actually. The low- and mid-ends are pretty saturated already (although some of us might argue there is always room for more "mid-fi" cans), while there are a lot of enthusiasts ready for the "latest and the greatest." I think there's a lot to what Lordz says, good posts.

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... EDIT: Don't dis the younger crowd man, it hurts.

Well relatively speaking I am in the 'younger crowd' too. But as a college student, even if I was an economics major, I'd be hesitant to lecture on the workings of audiophile headphone headphone companies. But people who are clearly very inexperienced always seem the most exuberant to lecture others on the subject of their inexperience.
Anyways, I think it adds another dimension of

to this thread.

 

[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well relatively speaking I am in the 'younger crowd' too. But as a college student, even if I was an economics major, I'd be hesitant to lecture on the workings of audiophile headphone headphone companies. But people who are clearly very inexperienced always seem the most exuberant to lecture others on the subject of their inexperience. Anyways, I think it adds another dimension of to this thread.

Which one did the lecturing again?

Also, young tier = <18

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which one did the lecturing again?

so many lectures - it's hard to keep track.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, young tier = <18

oh, in that case consider yourselves dissed and I think you're wack

...I don't want to derail this thread anymore from the subject at hand - what is the best price for the ad700?!

 

[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif oh, in that case consider yourselves dissed and I think you're wack

What?

Also, this thread was never meant to be on topic. Just pay 100$ ish for it on amazon.

 

[freakydrew]

I came looking for headphones so I could watchblue ray on my new pc while wifey-poo could watch tv in the next room, thought wireless would be cool, was qucikly flamed and turned on to the 700's and Senns HD555...bought both cheap from amazon, cheaper than anywhere in Canada and had them delivered to an aquaintence near Buffalo which is less than a two hour drive.
Since then I became obsessed with learning all I could about ohms, impedance, colour, etc...tube amplification really intrigues me. So I sold my 700's and 555's without losing any money and have now ordered K702's off ebay and will now look forward to buying an amplifier.
All of this stuff interests me, I consider myself an intelligent, educated fellow and can talk about pretty much anything. This whole world of head-fi is new and unknown and exciting.
I work hard for my money (well I work for my money), I am a welfare case manager in rural Ontario, we are the only business that gets busy during a recession.
I used to spend all my disposable income on women, weed and fun...lol
so I needed a new outlet and this has filled that void. Sure I realize that I am spending more money than I should and headphone cost a fraction to make then what we pay, but what doesn't?
I golf, and green fees are outrageous, but millions pay daily, I play hockey and equipment is very overpriced too.
I guess if you like something and it makes you happy..who cares what it costs if you have the money? If I was behind on bills and mortgage payments and buying AKH K1000's then that would be different.
bottom line, and you alluded to this, a fool and his money are soon parted. At least I am a happy fool!

 

[Busta9iron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjrabon /img/forum/go_quote.gif They also likely wouldn't have put in the R&D to develop them. There are upfront costs, and then there are costs of production. After the R&D is done, a headphone company makes money for every pair they sell over the cost of production. So you can see prices go as low as prouction costs + transaction costs + distribution costs. However, if say Sennheiser knew they'd only get production costs + transaction costs + distribution costs, they wouldn't pour any money into R&D, as they'd be losing money then. What you typically see is the company selling for a large amount upfront, to make sure they recover their R&D costs. The R&D costs are covered by the "early adopters" who just have to be on the leading edge of technology and will gladly pay more to be on the leading edge. Later, after the R&D costs are covered, you'll see the price drop to near the cost of production + a reasonable profit. The funny part is that the headphone maker is usually operating at a loss until well into the period where they have lowered the price. But they'd likely never get out of the red if they spent as much on R&D as they do, but still sold at the lower price. So yes, again, as always, you get what you pay for. If nobody was willing to pay $1,400 for the HD800, we probably wouldn't have an HD800, we'd have a marginally refreshed HD600. If people hadn't been willing to pay $200 for an AD700 a few years ago, we probably wouldn't have an AD700, we'd have a basically generic headphone that made no real advances over its predecessors. It's those "fools" as you like to call them that allow you to get such an astounding deal on the AD700. When you take into the total cost of production, including R&D, it likely cost more than $97 to make your AD700, you just got lucky that many others have already paid for the R&D portion of that cost and now you only have to pay the production costs.

In a nutshell, what he said. If the business model that Sennheiser, Grado, Audio Technica, and others was not working, they would be out of business. Lordz, the companies are in the business of profit, not pleasing the consumers wallet. You are most definitely thinking for the consumers wallet, not longevity, in the competitive electronics market. To stay in business, you must minimize risk, and by having the consumer assume the R&D costs, you are doing so. This may not be to your liking, but this is one of the many reasons these companies stay competitive in the market.

You really do have to thank the "tools" that pay the big dollars for the high end cans, because without them, you would not have your AD700's so cheaply. If you followed your model, there would be no innovation. Case in point, the telephone monopoly of Ma Bell. This is why Cell phones,cordless phones, smart phones didn't exist until the monopoly was broken up, and government deregulated the telephone industry. The monopoly of the Telephone industry had no competition and customers had no option but the phone they received from the phone company. Captive customers, and no reason to waste profits on innovative new products. Just sit back, smile, and count the money in the bank. My guess is that you have never had a finger in a rotary phone, waiting for the dial to return to its position to roll the next number.

As for the hijacking of the thread, Hurryup will never buy the 700's, he's just a troll, as he has created several of these threads.

 

[yourstruly]

I don't know whos right or whos wrong, but why do people always bring their crusades online?

Who cares what other people do with their money? You're not them.