Audio hobby is like tasting wine.
Nov 19, 2019 at 2:14 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 11

thomaskong78

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1. There is no best wine for everyone.

It depends on personal taste to choose favorite wine.


2. Law of diminishing return apply to both audio and wine.

100$ wine is not 10 times better than 10$ wine.

1,000$ wine is not 10 times better than 100$ wine.


3. You need experience to acknowledge good audio or wine.

I am not wine connoisseur.

But I could taste some nice wines through one of my rich friend who is willing to treat nice wines in his listening room.

He treated 700$ wine to me last year. It is the best wine I had ever tasted.

I had never bought wine more than 150$ myself, since I do not have confidence in selecting right one.

Some rich guy paid huge price for big audio system.

It plays loud but not in the balanced way or without any nuanced flavor of nice wines.

Money can not buy you nice system.

You need experience to match right components and cables.


4. One keeps looking for different flavor.

Most people do not want to drink same wine everyday.

They wish to taste different flavor.

Audiophile is looking for new flavor in their audio system.

They keep changing components every year or do some tweaks like cable rolling, tube rolling and power isolation.

Sometimes audiophile do sidegrade rather than upgrade.


I have my first serious audio system back to 1978 with ADS bookself speaker, Garrard Turntable and Fisher integrated amplifier.

After using dynamic speakers like Altech, Thiel and Canton, I was enamored by Apogee Duetta ribbon speaker and Martin Logan CLX full range electrostatic speaker around 1989.

I do not have enough listening space or money to buy two of them at the same time.

Although I loved silky violin tone out of Martin Logan, I chose Apogee based upon overall balance and seemless dynamics.

I had been happy with Apogee Duetta Sig driven by Krell KSA 150 from 1989 to 1999.

But I wish to get sub bass below 35 hz.

It is not easy to match subwoofer with Apogee Duetta Sig which is very fast.

Thus I had switched to Avalon Ascent II and then to Wilson Watt Puppy 4 and then B&W Notilus 801.


B&W Notilus 801(15 inch woofer) driven by Jadis 500(350 watts tube power) gave the most powerful and deep bass in my listening room.

But with too much heat and some tube popping out, I had swtiched to 300B SET amp with 8 watts from the recommendation of my friend who treated me 700$ wine.

I also replaced B&W Notilus 801 with full range high efficiency speaker.

Full range speaker is not my cup of tea with limited dynamics and bass extension.

Thus I had auditioned few speakers to replace full range.

It came down to Lansche 4.1 and JBL DD66000.

Although I liked enormous dynamics out of JBL, it may need more power than 8watts of Silbatone.SET.

Thus I had chosen Lansche on 2007 and been happy with its pristine treble out of plasma tweeter.


Last December, I came across Vintage Western horn full system which cost 300K$.

I really like its natural dynamics and timber out of it.

But I could not shell out 300K$ right now.

This year I had embarked upon earphones and headphones.

I need those listening to music when my wife is sleeping or I travel out of town.


I had lot of joy in Stax 009S driven by Carbon amp with nuanced details and wide and deep headstage.


Although I loved Martin Logan CLX sound, I had never had electrostatic speaker at home.

Now I enjoy Stax 009s instead.


I also had considered getting ribbon or planar speaker but will opt for ribbon headphone instead.

It is called Raal Sr1a which I auditioned last week.

It reminds me of Apogee Duetta with fast and open sound.

I expect to get it January next year.


Some people place more than two sets of speakers in one room.

But I do not like such placement since sound of speaker is very sensitive to room acoustics.

It is easier to have several headphones and choose them upon mood without paying attention to room acoustics or space.


For the time being I will play with several headphones with various flavors.
 
Last edited:
Nov 19, 2019 at 2:32 PM Post #2 of 11
Also, both Wine Tasting and Audio can be addictive (in good and bad ways) :wine_glass::L3000:
 
Nov 20, 2019 at 2:18 AM Post #4 of 11
Nice analogy, I totally agree :)

Wine and audio gear have their personality as well, and there are similarities that can be found ...

Since we are on head-fi, the Abyss TC reminds me of a Barolo, full bodied, deep, vast.
Susvara is like a Bordeaux, elegant, supple yet powerful.
SR1a could resemble a Bourgogne grand cru pinot noir: fine, noble, ethereal.
LCD-4 makes me think about an Australian shiraz, thick, creamy and long lasting taste.
SR009 of course is a vintage Champagne, mineral, transcendental, elevating.

Good thing is that audio gear - music - and wine can be enjoyed together, so what about this holistic menu :headphones: :champagne: :violin::
Abyss TC + Barolo Monfortino 1989 + Mahler 9th,
Susvara + Chateau Margaux 1996 + Kind of Blue
SR1a + La Tache Romanée Conti 2005 + Beethoven string quartet op. 131
LCD-4 + Penfolds Grange 1998 + Ella Fitzgerald
SR009 + Krug Clos du Mesnil 1996 + Bach Cello Suites

There are many ways to Nirvana :innocent:
 
Last edited:
Nov 20, 2019 at 3:55 AM Post #5 of 11
Nice analogy, I totally agree :)

Wine and audio gear have their personality as well, and there are similarities that can be found ...

Since we are on head-fi, the Abyss TC reminds me of a Barolo, full bodied, deep, vast.
Susvara is like a Bordeaux, elegant, supple yet powerful.
SR1a could resemble a Bourgogne grand cru pinot noir: fine, noble, ethereal.
LCD-4 makes me think about an Australian shiraz, thick, creamy and long lasting taste.
SR009 of course is a vintage Champagne, mineral, transcendental, elevating.

Good thing is that audio gear (music) and wine can be 'consumed' together, so what about this holistic menu :headphones: :champagne: :violin::
Abyss TC + Barolo Monfortino 1989 + Mahler 9th,
Susvara + Chateau Margaux 1996 + Kind of Blue
SR1a + La Tache Romanée Conti 2005 + Beethoven string quartet op. 131
LCD-4 + Penfolds Grange 1998 + Ella Fitzgerald
SR009 + Krug Clos du Mesnil 1996 + Bach Cello Partitas

There are many ways to Nirvana :innocent:
Nice analogies on headphones.

I plan to get Sr1a next January and Abyss TC on 2021.
 
Feb 6, 2020 at 11:13 PM Post #6 of 11
Nice analogy, I totally agree :)

Wine and audio gear have their personality as well, and there are similarities that can be found ...

Since we are on head-fi, the Abyss TC reminds me of a Barolo, full bodied, deep, vast.
Susvara is like a Bordeaux, elegant, supple yet powerful.
SR1a could resemble a Bourgogne grand cru pinot noir: fine, noble, ethereal.
LCD-4 makes me think about an Australian shiraz, thick, creamy and long lasting taste.
SR009 of course is a vintage Champagne, mineral, transcendental, elevating.

Good thing is that audio gear - music - and wine can be enjoyed together, so what about this holistic menu :headphones: :champagne: :violin::
Abyss TC + Barolo Monfortino 1989 + Mahler 9th,
Susvara + Chateau Margaux 1996 + Kind of Blue
SR1a + La Tache Romanée Conti 2005 + Beethoven string quartet op. 131
LCD-4 + Penfolds Grange 1998 + Ella Fitzgerald
SR009 + Krug Clos du Mesnil 1996 + Bach Cello Suites

There are many ways to Nirvana :innocent:
I do not know much about wine myself but this was so beautifully written. You must be one classy fella/fello. Lol.
 
Feb 8, 2020 at 2:50 PM Post #7 of 11
One thing you guys forgot... great wine can make audio sound better. However great audio can not make bad wine taste good. There are several variations we could expound upon but I think you get my point :D
 
Feb 10, 2020 at 9:15 AM Post #8 of 11
1. There is no best wine for everyone. It depends on personal taste to choose favorite wine.
2. Law of diminishing return apply to both audio and wine. 100$ wine is not 10 times better than 10$ wine. 1,000$ wine is not 10 times better than 100$ wine.
3. You need experience to acknowledge good audio or wine.
4. One keeps looking for different flavor. Most people do not want to drink same wine everyday. They wish to taste different flavor. Audiophile is looking for new flavor in their audio system.

Not sure I can agree with the topic premise:

1. This isn't like audio. Unlike the world of wine tasting (AFAIK), the audio world has an objective measurement of "best", called "fidelity". We can of course all have our own definition of what is "best" for us personally but we also have this overarching concept of "fidelity", as indicated in the names of both this forum and the whole site ("Summit-fi" and "Head-fi").

2. I don't know if the law of diminishing returns always applies to wine but it doesn't with audio. Assuming fidelity is the goal, significantly higher priced pieces of audio equipment often provide the same fidelity (No return), sometimes they provide even worse fidelity (negative return!) and also, they often provide higher fidelity that's inaudible (a diminishing return if you're into specs but no return if you're after sonic differences/improvements). This is far more true of digital components though.

3. Again, probably with wine but not so with audio. Sure, if you want to "acknowledge" what is good to you personally, then there's no escaping the need for experience but if we're talking about fidelity, little/no experience is necessary, just some measuring equipment or software and the basic knowledge to use it.

4. Sounds reasonable for wine tasting but not so much for audio. A high fidelity ("transparent") reproduction system can't, by definition, have any "flavor". I want my reproduction system to be high fidelity/transparent and therefore ONLY reproduce the "flavour" the artists put into the recording, not lower the fidelity and change the artists' flavour by adding it's own. I realise that many audiophiles do want a different flavour from their system and that's their choice of course but it's not high fidelity.

G
 
Feb 11, 2020 at 8:16 PM Post #9 of 11
1. There is no best wine for everyone.

It depends on personal taste to choose favorite wine.


2. Law of diminishing return apply to both audio and wine.

100$ wine is not 10 times better than 10$ wine.

1,000$ wine is not 10 times better than 100$ wine.


3. You need experience to acknowledge good audio or wine.

I am not wine connoisseur.

But I could taste some nice wines through one of my rich friend who is willing to treat nice wines in his listening room.

He treated 700$ wine to me last year. It is the best wine I had ever tasted.

I had never bought wine more than 150$ myself, since I do not have confidence in selecting right one.

Some rich guy paid huge price for big audio system.

It plays loud but not in the balanced way or without any nuanced flavor of nice wines.

Money can not buy you nice system.

You need experience to match right components and cables.


4. One keeps looking for different flavor.

Most people do not want to drink same wine everyday.

They wish to taste different flavor.

Audiophile is looking for new flavor in their audio system.

They keep changing components every year or do some tweaks like cable rolling, tube rolling and power isolation.

Sometimes audiophile do sidegrade rather than upgrade.


I have my first serious audio system back to 1978 with ADS bookself speaker, Garrard Turntable and Fisher integrated amplifier.

After using dynamic speakers like Altech, Thiel and Canton, I was enamored by Apogee Duetta ribbon speaker and Martin Logan CLX full range electrostatic speaker around 1989.

I do not have enough listening space or money to buy two of them at the same time.

Although I loved silky violin tone out of Martin Logan, I chose Apogee based upon overall balance and seemless dynamics.

I had been happy with Apogee Duetta Sig driven by Krell KSA 150 from 1989 to 1999.

But I wish to get sub bass below 35 hz.

It is not easy to match subwoofer with Apogee Duetta Sig which is very fast.

Thus I had switched to Avalon Ascent II and then to Wilson Watt Puppy 4 and then B&W Notilus 801.


B&W Notilus 801(15 inch woofer) driven by Jadis 500(350 watts tube power) gave the most powerful and deep bass in my listening room.

But with too much heat and some tube popping out, I had swtiched to 300B SET amp with 8 watts from the recommendation of my friend who treated me 700$ wine.

I also replaced B&W Notilus 801 with full range high efficiency speaker.

Full range speaker is not my cup of tea with limited dynamics and bass extension.

Thus I had auditioned few speakers to replace full range.

It came down to Lansche 4.1 and JBL DD66000.

Although I liked enormous dynamics out of JBL, it may need more power than 8watts of Silbatone.SET.

Thus I had chosen Lansche on 2007 and been happy with its pristine treble out of plasma tweeter.


Last December, I came across Vintage Western horn full system which cost 300K$.

I really like its natural dynamics and timber out of it.

But I could not shell out 300K$ right now.

This year I had embarked upon earphones and headphones.

I need those listening to music when my wife is sleeping or I travel out of town.


I had lot of joy in Stax 009S driven by Carbon amp with nuanced details and wide and deep headstage.


Although I loved Martin Logan CLX sound, I had never had electrostatic speaker at home.

Now I enjoy Stax 009s instead.


I also had considered getting ribbon or planar speaker but will opt for ribbon headphone instead.

It is called Raal Sr1a which I auditioned last week.

It reminds me of Apogee Duetta with fast and open sound.

I expect to get it January next year.


Some people place more than two sets of speakers in one room.

But I do not like such placement since sound of speaker is very sensitive to room acoustics.

It is easier to have several headphones and choose them upon mood without paying attention to room acoustics or space.


For the time being I will play with several headphones with various flavors.

I had the Duettas and the KSA 100 for a few years. The Martin-Logan CLX wasn't out in 1989, you mean the CLS. I owned those too for a long time. Gradient 57 sub woofers (didn't go under 20 Hz) were the choice for Quads, CLS, Duettas for years for fast bass that matched panels speed.

I started in 1974, with a pair of ADS 810's. I had some great systems from 1980 thru 2015, but, downsized from the big house, so big panel speakers cannot do the job for me anymore.

Do try the Stax 007, and MrSpeakers Voce while you are searching around. The Hedd might be good too - although I have not heard it.
 
Feb 11, 2020 at 8:37 PM Post #10 of 11
I had the Duettas and the KSA 100 for a few years. The Martin-Logan CLX wasn't out in 1989, you mean the CLS. I owned those too for a long time. Gradient 57 sub woofers (didn't go under 20 Hz) were the choice for Quads, CLS, Duettas for years for fast bass that matched panels speed.

I started in 1974, with a pair of ADS 810's. I had some great systems from 1980 thru 2015, but, downsized from the big house, so big panel speakers cannot do the job for me anymore.

Do try the Stax 007, and MrSpeakers Voce while you are searching around. The Hedd might be good too - although I have not heard it.
I mean ClS. You are correct.

Now I have Elecrostatic and ribbon headphone in addition to speaker with plasma tweeter.
 
Feb 11, 2020 at 10:33 PM Post #11 of 11
Nice analogy, I totally agree :)

Wine and audio gear have their personality as well, and there are similarities that can be found ...

Since we are on head-fi, the Abyss TC reminds me of a Barolo, full bodied, deep, vast.
Susvara is like a Bordeaux, elegant, supple yet powerful.
SR1a could resemble a Bourgogne grand cru pinot noir: fine, noble, ethereal.
LCD-4 makes me think about an Australian shiraz, thick, creamy and long lasting taste.
SR009 of course is a vintage Champagne, mineral, transcendental, elevating.

Good thing is that audio gear - music - and wine can be enjoyed together, so what about this holistic menu :headphones: :champagne: :violin::
Abyss TC + Barolo Monfortino 1989 + Mahler 9th,
Susvara + Chateau Margaux 1996 + Kind of Blue
SR1a + La Tache Romanée Conti 2005 + Beethoven string quartet op. 131
LCD-4 + Penfolds Grange 1998 + Ella Fitzgerald
SR009 + Krug Clos du Mesnil 1996 + Bach Cello Suites

There are many ways to Nirvana :innocent:

... spent almost five months in Torino in 1992 consuming nero trofuto (black truffles) and Barolos most of which are not imported to the US; didn't really have good access to tunes, but the food and wine somehow made up for the shortfall. I like your Abyss/Barolo combo especially. The HE-500 would have to be a really nice Pinot from Oregon... The HE-6 really good pear schnapps bought in Munich... my old Verity Parsifals - have to be Moet Nectar Imperial - if not than Macallen 18 year old single malt.
 

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