[Chu]

I can't put my finger on it, but does the language "Patrick82" use on HA seem slightly different then the Patrick we know and love?

 

[Patrick82]

My system is warmed up 10 and half day now. After 6 days transparency appeared but it was edgy, then it got smoother. After 10 days it started sounding clean like there was nothing in front of the music.

When I listen to 192 kbps mp3 I don't hear anything wrong with the synergy. I could keep listening to 192 kbps mp3 my whole life, it sounds that clean. When I try WAV with the computer it sounds too edgy. 192 kbps mp3 sounds the best with computer + Toslink! WAV is made for a transport with upsampling.

I haven't listened to my Cary transport for many days because computer sounds better even with 192 kbps mp3, it's all about the synergy. I think the more revealing Cary needs 1 month warm-up while the computer is fine with only 10 days.


I think I have said this before, and now it is confirmed.

1. WAV sounds best with 192kHz upsampling + AES/EBU
2. 192 kbps mp3 sounds best with 44.1kHz + Toslink

 

[Chu]

192 is an odd number. Most people go with 128CBR for legacy compatibility, or if they are willing to spend the bits just go for the --alt-presets (i.e. "new" VBR mode) which will average around 192 but spend it much better.

 

[vcoheda]

i love all the tweaks.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=medium]Warm-up is real[/size] My system was turned on for 31 days. I turned off my system for 4 minutes and back on again. I was surprised of the HUGE difference. All the low-level details were gone, the complex passages weren't there anymore, there was a layer of veil covering up everything. But everything sounded much smoother than before. It sounded good even without the low-level details. [size=medium]Removing adapters[/size] My amps were using gold plated Wattgate + adapter. I replaced them with a couple Oyaide P-037e. I got more low-level detail and everything got a little brighter. It sounded like the low-level detail was the same as when my system was warmed up for only a week. It is still not even close to 1 month warm-up. Warm-up of the system gives a bigger improvement in low-level detail than connectors do!

Those Oyaide connectors messed up synergy. I was afraid to get thinner bass, but instead I got more bass! I think it was because I removed the adapters. There was an overkill of low-level detail with too much oomph in the bass so I needed to change the Valkyrja interconnect into Valhalla band-aid. But the Valhalla messed up synergy even more, everything was very edgy, cold and fatiguing which gave me headache within minutes. But I found a way to compensate for that edginess, I changed the burn-in volume of my headphones from 48dB to 60dB which made a bigger difference than equipment upgrades. To compensate for the more revealing headphones I need to warm-up my system longer than 1 month.

If you have synergy in the system then anything you do will remove that synergy, and then you need to compensate for it elsewhere by using many tweaks. I was very lucky I only needed 3 extra tweaks to compensate for those AC connectors. Now it sounds both heavier and faster than before, with the same low-level detail.


[size=medium]Another warm-up experiment for computer[/size]


My computer was turned on for 12 days. I turned it off for 5 seconds using the switch on the back of the PSU. When I listened to music again it sounded broken. Transients were harsh and bright but there was a smooth veil covering them up so they didn't sound harsh. The reduction of low-level detail was HUGE.


[size=medium]Equipment upgrades = insignificant[/size]

Then I replaced my malfunctioning Antec Smartpower with a Corsair 450VX and I could still hear the broken sound signature, maybe it sounded little heavier but I wasn't sure. I don't think there was a difference at all. It is weird that audiophiles get impressed of equipment upgrades, they exaggerate a lot. They are also raving that a power conditioner makes a bigger difference than any source or amp upgrade, it does but I'm still not impressed of power conditioners because they add problems to the sound. I'm only impressed of Magix and ERS Paper because they aren't in the signal path, they don't hurt the sound, they only make the component work like it should. I don't know of any gear that work better when infected with EMI and vibration. Those tweaks will always be the best tweaks for the money no matter how much they cost.

Like I said before, the gear are just there to make the tweaks work, as long as the gear have good measured performance and not high-end muddiness. Even my malfunctioning PSU sounded amazing, I only replaced it because my mouse was jittery.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Those Oyaide connectors messed up synergy. I was afraid to get thinner bass, but instead I got more bass! I think it was because I removed the adapters. There was an overkill of low-level detail with too much oomph in the bass so I needed to change the Valkyrja interconnect into Valhalla band-aid. But the Valhalla messed up synergy even more, everything was very edgy, cold and fatiguing which gave me headache within minutes. But I found a way to compensate for that edginess, I changed the burn-in volume of my headphones from 48dB to 60dB which made a bigger difference than equipment upgrades. To compensate for the more revealing headphones I need to warm-up my system longer than 1 month. If you have synergy in the system then anything you do will remove that synergy, and then you need to compensate for it elsewhere by using many tweaks. I was very lucky I only needed 3 extra tweaks to compensate for those AC connectors. Now it sounds both heavier and faster than before, with the same low-level detail. [size=medium]Another warm-up experiment for computer[/size] My computer was turned on for 12 days. I turned it off for 5 seconds using the switch on the back of the PSU. When I listened to music again it sounded broken. Transients were harsh and bright but there was a smooth veil covering them up so they didn't sound harsh. The reduction of low-level detail was HUGE. [size=medium]Equipment upgrades = insignificant[/size] Then I replaced my malfunctioning Antec Smartpower with a Corsair 450VX and I could still hear the broken sound signature, maybe it sounded little heavier but I wasn't sure. I don't think there was a difference at all. It is weird that audiophiles get impressed of equipment upgrades, they exaggerate a lot. They are also raving that a power conditioner makes a bigger difference than any source or amp upgrade, it does but I'm still not impressed of power conditioners because they add problems to the sound. I'm only impressed of Magix and ERS Paper because they aren't in the signal path, they don't hurt the sound, they only make the component work like it should. I don't know of any gear that work better when infected with EMI and vibration. Those tweaks will always be the best tweaks for the money no matter how much they cost. Like I said before, the gear are just there to make the tweaks work, as long as the gear have good measured performance and not high-end muddiness. Even my malfunctioning PSU sounded amazing, I only replaced it because my mouse was jittery.

Biggest improvement will give either new, better transformer or a completely modded powersection throughout the amp, cdplayer or any other source. If your powersection of any amp or source is up to notch, no powerconditioner will improve sound, most likely will worsen the sound, as in my case.

I agree with fibrationreduction, not sure about ers since i haven't tried it out yet!

As most people report, for good amps with hungry powersupplies, conditioners only worsen the sound, they are too slow to deliver the huge amounts of juice needed for those amps.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu /img/forum/go_quote.gif 192 is an odd number. Most people go with 128CBR for legacy compatibility, or if they are willing to spend the bits just go for the --alt-presets (i.e. "new" VBR mode) which will average around 192 but spend it much better.

It's in the specs of mp3 compression.
32 kbits to 320 kbits and in between, 192 is one em, like 224.

I don't like mp3, since most have the 16khz floor. i hear some don't have it but i still rip to flac, wich is an exact copy of wave with about 50% compression to save space. Flac is exactly the same as athe original, mp3 isn't. Not at 128 or any other lower rate. Dynamics and higs are compressed.

 

[Chu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's in the specs of mp3 compression. 32 kbits to 320 kbits and in between, 192 is one em, like 224. I don't like mp3, since most have the 16khz floor. i hear some don't have it but i still rip to flac, wich is an exact copy of wave with about 50% compression to save space. Flac is exactly the same as athe original, mp3 isn't. Not at 128 or any other lower rate. Dynamics and higs are compressed.

I fully understand what patrick is doing. I am asking why because 192 cbr is one of the worst compromises in terms of space/algorithm/sq.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Biggest improvement will give either new, better transformer or a completely modded powersection throughout the amp, cdplayer or any other source. If your powersection of any amp or source is up to notch, no powerconditioner will improve sound, most likely will worsen the sound, as in my case. I agree with fibrationreduction, not sure about ers since i haven't tried it out yet! As most people report, for good amps with hungry powersupplies, conditioners only worsen the sound, they are too slow to deliver the huge amounts of juice needed for those amps.

Yes, if big amps have problems then small amps have problems too. My amp and DAC take only 10 watts and the differences are huge. Power conditioners are good band-aids to slow down the bright sound into muddiness and darkness. And Valhalla interconnect is a good band-aid to make it colder to compensate for it. Since both tweaks remove low-level detail the background appears blacker and cleaner. If the power conditioner improves low-level detail then it's because there was too much brightness to begin with, and when it was toned down the low-level details became more apparent. It's similar to rolling off the highs to boost up the bass, it makes it worse overall.

I only use Premier Power Plant to get the built-in multiwave and cleanwave. I used P300 Power Plant before and I liked it better than wall because I had tweaked my system to match the multiwave sound signature. It sounded very dark which was a good match for the edgy sounding Feet of Silence. But when I upgraded to Magix levitation feet I didn't get any brightness when plugging my system to the wall.

Edit: Premier Power Plant also has filters separating each outlet. The improvement was similar as a Noise Harvester between the components. Noise Harvester is a better tweak than Premier Power Plant because it isn't in the signal path.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, if big amps have problems then small amps have problems too. My amp and DAC take only 10 watts and the differences are huge. Power conditioners are good band-aids to slow down the bright sound into muddiness and darkness. And Valhalla interconnect is a good band-aid to make it colder to compensate for it. Since both tweaks remove low-level detail the background appears blacker and cleaner. If the power conditioner improves low-level detail then it's because there was too much brightness to begin with, and when it was toned down the low-level details became more apparent. It's similar to rolling off the highs to boost up the bass, it makes it worse overall. I only use Premier Power Plant to get the built-in multiwave and cleanwave. I used P300 Power Plant before and I liked it better than wall because I had tweaked my system to match the multiwave sound signature. It sounded very dark which was a good match for the edgy sounding Feet of Silence. But when I upgraded to Magix levitation feet I didn't get any brightness when plugging my system to the wall. Edit: Premier Power Plant also has filters separating each outlet. The improvement was similar as a Noise Harvester between the components. Noise Harvester is a better tweak than Premier Power Plant because it isn't in the signal path.

As long it doesn't limit the power.

They are quite simple, they use caps and/or spools to filter certain frequencies, that's it. Every extra cap or any elektronical component will be heard in the chain. If the powersupply is good in your amp, you won't need any of those!

Your powersupply filtering will filter out anything left.

So, the audio industry created a need for a patch, while the problem really is in the powersections of the amp itself!

Some high end amps have even filtering build in their poweramps, like mark levinson etc.

 

[Patrick82]

Power conditioners make bigger differences than pre-amps

I was reading about pre-amps and realized why a jittery computer sounds so good with Benchmark DAC1 with the built-in pre-amp.

When I used PS Audio Gain Cell pre-amp it sounded edgier than neutral, the bass was controlled but the oomph was missing.
A year ago when I tried the pre-amp inside DAC1 the bass sounded sounded too boomy, grey, dull and muddy (there was too much oomph in the bass).

To be able to use Gain Cell pre-amp I needed a PS Audio P300 Power Plant with MWave4 to boost up the oomph in the bass. I tried to switch to MWave1 dozens of times but it never worked. Oomph was missing every time no matter what I tried.

When I upgraded to Premier Power Plant it only had the MWave1 setting so I couldn't replace the P300 with it even when it sounded better. Synergy was more important and P300 + MWave4 was the only tweak that gave the oomph that was required.

After I changed the Gain Cell pre-amp into DAC1 pre-amp I was able to use Premier Power Plant to get synergy. Overall the sound was better with the DAC1 pre-amp + Premier combo.

The built-in pre-amp inside Benchmark DAC1 is boomier than neutral and the Gain Cell pre-amp is edgier than neutral. It is interesting that the difference between P300 Power Plant and Premier Power Plant is bigger than the difference between a crappy pre-amp and a high-end pre-amp.


Jittery transport is good for pre-amp of DAC1

I was reading about active pre-amps and found that they smear the sound in a similar way as too thick cables. They add fake body which covers up the low-level details and makes everything boomy and musical.

If the transport has no jitter it makes the boominess sound grey. But if the transport has a lot of jitter it makes the boominess sound black. It's because the DAC1's pre-amp smears out the signal to make it sound fuller. This way it's possible to make it sound blacker than neutral and that is what I get with the computer, the more jitter the better!


Valhalla interconnect for low jitter transport

I'm finally able to listen to my Cary transport again because it doesn't sound too grey anymore. It's because the Valhalla interconnect is colder than neutral and it's a good match for the boomy pre-amp of DAC1.


Warm-up

My system has warmed up 1 month now and the low-level details are still improving every day. The biggest differences happened within the first two weeks but afterwards something was still changing.

After 4 weeks the veil I used to have from the gold plated Wattgate IEC connector was finally gone and all I could hear was the distortion from Valhalla cable, I like it. But a few days later I started hearing a slight veil of the sound and it seems like it's from the Power Port AC outlet, so I will need to bypass it and let the system warm up a month again to hear the improvements. But first I will keep the system running a couple weeks longer to see if it keeps improving.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But first I will keep the system running a couple weeks longer to see if it keeps improving.

I was surprised that the system kept improving after a month of warm-up. After 5 weeks the magic started happening! The veil was reduced from the music and it sounded more transparent. I think 2 months warm-up is needed.

But then on the 38th day the power went out in the apartment. It felt like being on a run for 38 days and then you suddenly see a tranquilizer dart fly at you and then you fall to the ground, and the last thing you see is men in white jackets standing around you, and when you wake up you are back where you started running from.

I might be putting battery backup between Premier Power Plant and wall so I can warm-up my system without interruption. I already plugged my system into stock extension strips now, I was surprised of the small difference, stock cables are that good! Aftermarket power stuff just color the sound to the worse. But I still like the weak and hollow Valhalla flavor more than the neutral stock cable. After almost 3 years, I'm still in love with Valhalla.

 

[ken36]

[size=x-large]GOOD STUFF![/size]

 

[peelax]

Quote:

Patrick.. Again another self-promoting thread.... ooh another valhalla tweak. Reading your threads makes me not even want to think about updating parts of my system. Anyway, I think you do this for the attention.... I found a link to a forum in which you pretend to not know what ERS paper can do for a system... Very entertaining, Patrick. ERS Paper for improved audio performance? - Hydrogenaudio Forums Do you do anything else other than stir the pot online?

From that thread (Patricks post):

Quote:

QUOTE(uart @ Aug 21 2007, 19:55) * QUOTE Ever since I first wrapped my system in ERS Paper 10 months ago I have had real life as reference, when I improved my system my ears were forced to improve as well. It made me hear more subtle sounds in real life. I could hear ants running on the ground and other stuff. Oh come on Patrick, surely that is a work of satire. That is just so funny I cant believe anyone could possibly take that guy seriously. I was quoting ValhallaPC from AVS forum. I found his ERS Paper videos: Part1 (Preparing): YouTube - Audiophile documentary Part 1 of 5 (Preparing) Part2: YouTube - Audiophile documentary Part 2 of 5 Part3: YouTube - Audiophile documentary Part 3 of 5 Part4: YouTube - Audiophile documentary Part 4 of 5 Part5 (Listening): YouTube - Audiophile documentary Part 5 of 5 (Listening)

And then (Some other guy's post quoted by Patrick):

Quote:

QUOTE(Febs @ Aug 22 2007, 01:13) * QUOTE(Patrick82 @ Aug 21 2007, 17:57) * I was quoting ValhallaPC from AVS forum. What a coincidence. "ValhallaPC" uses the name "Patrick281" on Youtube. Folks, this guy is a flat-out troll. Don't feed him. Patrick, go away. You're not fooling anyone. Go beg for attention on some other forum. I'm not him, I'm just a fan, that's why I use this name. I came here wondering if ERS makes a difference and I got my answer. It is a scam and works on placebo only, because moderator said so it must be true. Now I will save a lot of money because I don't need to buy ERS Paper and waste hundreds of hours installing it. Thanks!

Quote:

I'm not him, I'm just a fan, that's why I use this name.

How strange that person looks quite like you with a moustache? rofl

Anyone still think tourmaline and patrick are different people?

 

[MikoLayer]

Quote:

I don't work or shower, I do audio 24/7. I don't travel, the only shopping I do is for my next audio tweak that I buy online. I even dream about audio at night. When I sit at the computer I spend the time writing into my tweaking logs. I only go to toilet because the sticky chair would become a distraction otherwise. I shower when the smell interferes with my concentration, since I got a lot of practice I don't need to shower for a long time. When I'm hungry I eat some food. When I walk into the kitchen I practice my walking + listening technique to improve my hearing. When I walk I rotate and tilt my head slowly because it improves the soundstage accuracy. I also walk smoothly and quietly because I don't want loud thumps in my ears. magine yourself running outside on a trail in the forest. You are there running and suddenly an earthquake starts, it's a little shaky but you can keep running even if you get a headache. Then you notice rocks are falling from the sky and when they hit your head it sounds edgy. Suddenly you see lions chasing you from behind and they are chewing on you while you are running, it makes it sound faster but also edgy and fatiguing. As you can see, the earthquake is vibration, the rocks are EMI, and the lions are AC noise. When you fix the problems you get smoother sound and more low-level detail. But when you fix the AC noise with a power conditioner you get a little slower speed because the lions aren't there to boost up your speed anymore. If you have your trail magnetically levitating you can run faster and smoother than if the trail was connected to the earthquake, but the magnetic flux will try to suck you down, so it needs to be properly shielded. If you put a net around the trail it collects the rocks falling from the sky, but if the net is too close to your trail the rocks will still hit you and eventually the net has collected a lot of rocks which makes you get squeezed in between, it makes running very difficult. So you need to put the net a distance away from the trail to compensate for the weight of rocks stretching the net. After you do it properly you are able to run the trail without any external interferences.

Regardless of his intentions, Patrick is a funny guy. His posts made me really LOL

Patric, sorry if you are really serious about all this. Hope you enjoy whatever you are doing, self satisfaction is all that matters at the end.

peelax, though I wouldnt conclude anything without following the case closely enough, I know creating an "alter ego" could be done very elaborately. I have seen it done a few times at other places