[grokit]

Quote:

Just because there is a difference still leaves the question of just how much difference, and how much of a quantitative and objective improvement. You've had many opportunities to see that you've never really left the realm of subjective opinion, any more people trying to make you see it in different ways is probably just going to keep leading in the same circles. Just believe what you want, and let us believe what we want.

, Lol !

 

[Crazy*Carl]

I conducted an AB test with the Sparrow and an ipod shuffle then the Sparrow and the onboard sound.  Both times, me and the other person were unable to distinguish the two.  Also, just out of curiosity, I tryed my HD580 with an old computers soundcard.  There was a lot of hiss.  I can understand back then why external DACs and better soundcards were something that significantly improve sound.  But now, new sound devices inside motherboards have no hiss and have gotten so good.  Whether audiophiles will ever admit this is to be seen.
 
In addition, I conducted another test with a pioneer receiver from the 80s and a JVC cd player from the late 90s.  The CD player ran analogue out to the receivers headphone out which was compared to the headphone out on the cd player itself.  The difference was huge.  The pioneer receiver sounded very unclear, and when switching back to the JVC's headphone out, it became crystal clear.  Unfortunately, I never heard this difference with any new equipment
 
I am not hear to debunk audiophiles (despite it seeming like that), I just want good sound.  So happy listening.

 

[DDVX]

Quote:

 
In addition, I conducted another test with a pioneer receiver from the 80s and a JVC cd player from the late 90s.  The CD player ran analogue out to the receivers headphone out which was compared to the headphone out on the cd player itself.  The difference was huge.  The pioneer receiver sounded very unclear, and when switching back to the JVC's headphone out, it became crystal clear.  Unfortunately, I never heard this difference with any new equipment

I have a very similar setup. That's kind of funny, I thought the exact opposite heh. It was even a Pioneer receiver too. I thought the receiver had wider soundstage, deeper bass, and clearer highs. Oh well.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

I have a very similar setup. That's kind of funny, I thought the exact opposite heh. It was even a Pioneer receiver too. I thought the receiver had wider soundstage, deeper bass, and clearer highs. Oh well.

It may be a completely different pioneer receiver.  This is a pretty old one with a pretty crummy headphone out.  It probably very good for speakers though.
 

 

[SP Wild]

What attributes of the sound signature being outputted to your headphones contributed to the sensation of the sound being unclear.  Was it inadequate imaging or staging, was the bass boosted excessively with lesser control, or may it have been a slight treble roll-off.  Perhaps a different headphone with a heavy treble emphasis might mate well with the pioneer if it was treble roll-off - making that particular headphone perfect for the pioneer - Your HD580's sounding less clear because the HD580's treble strength is on the moderate side (just for example).
 
This is why when you read about amplifiers they use these descriptives and exaggerations - to highlight the little differences in specific ways.  Then those with a lot of experience with many different headphones can decode the given information and establish a more accurate conception of synergy available to a given headphone.
 
When you can elaborate specifically on why the pioneer sounded unclear to your headphones, potential purchasers will value your input.
 
So Carl, do all amplifiers sound sound the same?

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

What attributes of the sound signature being outputted to your headphones contributed to the sensation of the sound being unclear.  Was it inadequate imaging or staging, was the bass boosted excessively with lesser control, or may it have been a slight treble roll-off.  Perhaps a different headphone with a heavy treble emphasis might mate well with the pioneer if it was treble roll-off - making that particular headphone perfect for the pioneer - Your HD580's sounding less clear because the HD580's treble strength is on the moderate side (just for example).
 
This is why when you read about amplifiers they use these descriptives and exaggerations - to highlight the little differences in specific ways.  Then those with a lot of experience with many different headphones can decode the given information and establish a more accurate conception of synergy available to a given headphone.
 
When you can elaborate specifically on why the pioneer sounded unclear to your headphones, potential purchasers will value your input.
 
So Carl, do all amplifiers sound sound the same?

It just sounded unclear, it wasn't subtle.  It was like going from 64kbps mp3 to a lossless file.  I don't need all these audiophile terms to say that its unclear. I don't like over analyzing sound like you or the rest of this forum does. I just want good sound and to enjoy the music.  I probably don't belong at head-fi tbh, though I have still learned a few valuable things.
 
All amps do not sound the same, but every amp past 1995 that I have heard has sounded the same.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

It just sounded unclear, it wasn't subtle.  It was like going from 64kbps mp3 to a lossless file.  I don't need all these audiophile terms to say that its unclear. I don't like over analyzing sound like you or the rest of this forum does. I just want good sound and to enjoy the music.

Treble roll-off isn't an audiophile term. It's physics 

 
If you just want good sound, quit trying to convince everyone that amps and DACs do nothing. I've become a big skeptic and I agree with you, that differences are far, far overblown and often not worth it if there at all. But you seem really insistent for just a music lover. The Sparrow didn't kill your mother.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

I am trying to stop my crusade, but people keep pressing me.  I am done.  My beliefs stand.  Happy listening.

 

[SP Wild]

Yes, Carl - you are correct - enjoying the music is the first priority.  There are people that aren't into the music and appear more so into the gears, though I feel this is a minority.  Just because someone is experienced enough to be able to specifically isolate individual audio signatures and elaborate in great detail these subtleties, does not mean they are not enjoying the music.  I am sure they enjoy it just as much as you do.
 
Carl, you come across as a beginner with very limited experience to all who have read your posts.  It is this in-experience that has caused so many to run out of patience with you.  To put it bluntly, you are in no position to give advice.  I have nothing against beginners - I understand you, because I am like you.  I got my start with speakers 10 years ago - bought amplifiers, cables etc, found no differences whatsoever and was very much skeptical with the Hi-End.  When I got into headphone listening 3 years ago - a series of coincidences enabled to actually hear differences in components, I guess with the detailing that headphones provided made it possible.
 
Nevertheless, I feel you are very reasonable to communicate as of late and I hope your rockin tunes rock-on.

 

[Ro-amp]

 
Quote:

I have a very similar setup. That's kind of funny, I thought the exact opposite heh. It was even a Pioneer receiver too. I thought the receiver had wider soundstage, deeper bass, and clearer highs. Oh well.

Good for you, your run of the mill mid-fi Pioneer still sounds great, just shows you that a decent spec amplifier can sound pretty good...not Hi-Fi but close... 

 
Quote:

What attributes of the sound signature being outputted to your headphones contributed to the sensation of the sound being unclear.  Was it inadequate imaging or staging, was the bass boosted excessively with lesser control, or may it have been a slight treble roll-off.  Perhaps a different headphone with a heavy treble emphasis might mate well with the pioneer if it was treble roll-off - making that particular headphone perfect for the pioneer - Your HD580's sounding less clear because the HD580's treble strength is on the moderate side (just for example).
 
This is why when you read about amplifiers they use these descriptives and exaggerations - to highlight the little differences in specific ways.  Then those with a lot of experience with many different headphones can decode the given information and establish a more accurate conception of synergy available to a given headphone.
 
When you can elaborate specifically on why the pioneer sounded unclear to your headphones, potential purchasers will value your input.
 
So Carl, do all amplifiers sound sound the same?

This is lame, his run of the mill Pioneer mid-fi is probably getting tired or is defective...but you chose to use his own words against him...wow...
But of course you guys much prefer to color your sound with out of Hi-Fi spec gear, then chase your tail trying to obtain a specific sound that you don't even know what is...and then when you think you close to it, you go on and suggest a silver cable...It'll brightened it up!!!!!!  The man said...
 
Where is Hi-Fi going?
I'm out of here
Adios!

 

[SP Wild]

Ro-amp, you can kiss my ........
 
(my apologies to the moderators - he started it - I was doing my best to diffuse the tensions)

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Good for you, your run of the mill mid-fi Pioneer still sounds great, just shows you that a decent spec amplifier can sound pretty good...not Hi-Fi but close... 
 
This is lame, his run of the mill Pioneer mid-fi is probably getting tired or is defective...but you chose to use his own words against him...wow...
But of course you guys much prefer to color your sound with out of Hi-Fi spec gear, then chase your tail trying to obtain a specific sound that you don't even know what is...and then when you think you close to it, you go on and suggest a silver cable...It'll brightened it up!!!!!!  The man said...
SP Wild, you're one of the greatest pretenders I have seen of all of the web forums I have been to...when you actually know what you are talking about then give advice...
Where is Hi-Fi going?
I'm out of here
Adios!

I'm lost as to the purpose of this post.

 

[DDVX]

Same, I feel like that came out of nowhere. Where did he even come from?

 

[cravenz]

I think Carl is entitled to his opinion and ours to well...ours or whoever really.
 
Again, our bodies and physical attributes and sonic hearing frequencies too, I believe, are different from each other. Some of us see things differently from others, be it in its physical state or in a theoretical/philosophical/academic sense as well. that being said, I think we are all entitled to our own opinions as long as we do not go out there and lay a blanket claim against what seems to be the general consensus of things (and sometimes the latter may be wrong).
 
Again, I think the most important thing for us to do is to enjoy our music whichever way we like it, be it with more treble, harsher notes, etc. But it may never sound the same to others, just like some who have colour blindness, some are tone deaf, and well, my housemate has a weird tolerance of the cold and can't get into a similar level of 'hot' setting for the shower as the rest of us. We are all 'built' differently.
 
I don't think Carl has done anything pervasive to an extent of making broad spectrum remarks without quantifying his claim. sure, maybe his test had some flaws, but he made the effort and I honestly believe he is happy with what he has. He hasn't gotten angsty about things as well when people have questioned what he has done and I believe that people are entitled to question or at least he would have expected it as well, seeing that he posted it here.
 
Anyways, thanks Carl for your input, I hope you enjoy your music for a long time to come and the same to others. Music to me, is about the fun and the enjoyment factor and I hope that holds the same for all of us. Some find enjoyment in the analysing of music. I don't or I haven't yet
 
side note: I do not think it would be fair to impose our audio perceptions of things since we know, well I think at least, that we know it is all subjective. We give our opinion, what we think is best and run with it.

 

[grokit]

 

    Here's a better description of the subtle but verifiable differences between a cheap CMOY amp and a quality component with more complex circuitry than I could write at this juncture, posted on a different thread by someone else for a different reason