[Ruffle]

@Crazy*Carl
 
You'll enjoy HydrogenAudio more where statements are asked to be backed up by evidence.  
 
Some basics for listening tests
 
HydrogenAudio's general stance on objectivity vs the general audiophile drivel you read in those magazines where you think, this is nonsense.  
 
I personally only read there, I don't have the knowledge nor the tests to be able to back up my opinions.
 
Head-Fi is a forum for enthusiasts who enjoy discussing their hobby.  I enjoy reading their thoughts.  But if you want a discussion of objectivity, this is the wrong forum.  Even the science forum is pretty much all subjective with little interest in being objective.  
 
But a little advice.  Head-Fiers enjoy their hobby.  And many of them have the finances to purchase some very expensive gear.  I see no problems with this, I think it's great they are having so much fun and they have the means to do so.  Don't belittle them or even suggest they are delusional.  If they can hear the difference, then let them be.  
-  Just have fun here.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Even the science forum is pretty much all subjective with little interest in being objective.

Do you have evidence to back up this claim? 

 

[grokit]

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Do you have evidence to back up this claim? 

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

 
But a little advice.  Head-Fiers enjoy their hobby.  And many of them have the finances to purchase some very expensive gear.  I see no problems with this, I think it's great they are having so much fun and they have the means to do so.  Don't belittle them or even suggest they are delusional.  If they can hear the difference, then let them be.  
-  Just have fun here.

Ya, but it gets to a problem whenever everyone says I need to buy an amp for my HD580 because it doesn't sound nearly as good without one.
 
I buy several, I do blind tests, I fail them all - that really made my HD580 sound so much better...
 
I guess you can't complain, its just an internet forum.  But things are so inflated here and the real truth is you do not need all this audio gear to get good sound these days.  Maybe they have infinitesimal difference that some "audiophiles" think they can hear, but its quite silly in my opinion.
 
I wouldn't really recommend this place to anyone seeking good headphone sound.  Sure you can learn of the good headphones, but you have to sift through all the nonsense, and by the time your exposed to it, everyone thinks they need a headphone amp/dac... hence my case and most people at head-fi.

 

[shigzeo]

Though I am not willing to weigh in more than this, I have to agree, especially when it comes to headphones like the HD580-600.

 

[grokit]

He's baaa-aaak...

 

[cravenz]

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He's baaa-aaak...

heh. I just had to giggle. I already posted something like that prior but someone reacted to Carl's post and I had mine in between deleted lol.

 

[aspenx]

Don't worry about that.
 
Like all hobbyist forums, I believe the most important thing is for you to enjoy it. If you like it just the way it is, that should be absolutely fine. Heck, I can't hear the difference from my laptop's headphone output and from my DAC/amp most of the time too.
 
I think the last paragraph isn't very fair though. Whatever the people with good intentions say here, the potential purchases/setups should seriously all be personally auditioned by the person footing the bill and/or putting the headphones on. The opinions here though, help to form some rough idea (regardless of how true it will be to your ears) and it's much better than having no information at all. "Sifting through all the nonsense"? Hmm......

 
Quote:

I buy several, I do blind tests, I fail them all - that really made my HD580 sound so much better...
 
...
 
I wouldn't really recommend this place to anyone seeking good headphone sound.  Sure you can learn of the good headphones, but you have to sift through all the nonsense, and by the time your exposed to it, everyone thinks they need a headphone amp/dac... hence my case and most people at head-fi.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

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Don't worry about that.
 Heck, I can't hear the difference from my laptop's headphone output and from my DAC/amp most of the time too.

 

lol.  Anyone else belive me yet?
 
 
As for the auditioning you mentioned, I agree.  If i could audition DAC/AMPs, then I would never have bought them.  But the problem with this "hobby" is that you cant really audition a vast majority of the gear very easily and you do rely on others opinions alot.

 

[DDVX]

I agree on the last part there. I really wish you could audition headphones/amps/dacs/everything. I've called all around my area trying to find a place but no luck. I even believe that you can't tell the difference between your soundcard and the audinst. I just think you made a mistake blanketing your findings over every amp/dac. I think that you believe that everyone else is completely wrong. I don't think the audio industry has fooled everyone but you.

 

[grokit]

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I agree on the last part there. I really wish you could audition headphones/amps/dacs/everything. I've called all around my area trying to find a place but no luck. I even agree that you can't tell the difference between your soundcard and the audinst. I just think you made a mistake blanketing your findings over every amp/dac. I think that you believe that everyone else is completely wrong. I don't think the audio industry has fooled everyone but you.

If you peruse this thread, you will see...
that the whole industry and anyone else that doesn't agree with him is wrong indeed,
and Crazy*Carl is

right, roflmfao

!
 
It's a very entertaining thread if you have nothing better to do

 

[Crazy*Carl]

I don't think many of them are really out to scam people.  Portable devices did used to sound pretty terrible.  But over the past 10-15 years they have gotten so much better that they are right there with what used to be "hi-end" devices.

 

[DDVX]

Quote:

If you peruse this thread, you will see...
It's a very entertaining thread if you have nothing better to do

I've read the whole thread and was active in it 10 pages back or so. Just dropped in again. 

 
Carl, I think you are right that most of it sounds almost the same. I think that to most, they all would sound the same. You have to really listen to hear differences. Some find that more important than others. And again as someone said a few posts back, Hydrogen Audio is all about blind testing. I'm glad that they are and I read and am somewhat active in that forum as well. I'm in the EE field same as you CC and can appreciate real accuracy as opposed to blind statements.

 

[aimlink]

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Originally Posted by DDVX /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Carl, I think you are right that most of the sound almost the same. I think that to most, they all would sound the same. You have to really listen to hear differences. 

 
Agreed.  This is what audiophiledom is about .... really listening and appreciating.  It takes time and training for your ears to appreciate some things.  You also have to take notice in that owning audiophile equipment will not make you automatically really listen or develop an increasing ability to discriminate.

 

[tmars78]

Quote:

 
Agreed.  This is what audiophiledom is about .... really listening and appreciating.  It takes time and training for your ears to appreciate some things.  You also have to take notice in that owning audiophile equipment will not make you automatically really listen or develop an increasing ability to discriminate.

I understand what some people are saying, but I think if you're really trying to hear something, you miss out on the real joy, the music itself.