[Audio Bling]

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[..] It will be interesting to switch DSP modules on them and see what happens. As I understand it it´s just plug and play. No need to play with jumpers or anything?

 
[size=10pt]Yes, it would be “interesting” and is something I would likely do myself for a try. Best to just run the idea by Kingwa in the first instance, however.. I would expect the DSP-1 in the DAC-19 to be an earlier version and therefore, if anything, retard the performance of the Ref9.[/size]

 

 

[regal]

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Thanks for your impressions oqvist.
I'm a bit surprised by your description of the Ref.9 sound. One would expect a softer presentation from the musical line, but it seems almost the other way around, with the DAC19 having a smoother signature

 The musical line is not softer,  I consider it Audiogds audiophile line with better accuracy and tonality,  this can make it sound harsh with some amps.  The neutral line colors things a bit to take away but also easier to amplify for a not so linear amp.
 
 
As far as Ref-8 vs Ref9,  go to the website and you can see that they have different analog circuitry,  the Ref9 is not simply an unbalanced version of the Ref8.  The ref8 is the top dog flagship Audio-gd.
 

 

[IPodPJ]

The SNR on the Ref-8 is 116dB and 121dB on the Ref-7, so I don't see how the Ref-8 could be more accurate.

 

[realmassy]

True, but there's no way to measure timbre accuracy of the dac, and has no relationship with SNR specifications.

 

[IPodPJ]

Right, and sound preference with regard to tonality is subjective since the tone maps in everyone's brain are wired differently.  But accuracy/detail retrieval can be quantified through SNR and in that regard the Ref-7 would rate higher.  I too am very curious to hear the Ref-8 based on what Kingwa wrote in the description, and especially now with the v5 module raising the performance.  I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility that I might enjoy the Ref-8 more, but I doubt I'll get the chance to hear one before he discontinues the line (which hopefully won't happen).

 

[oqvist]

So you are suggesting Audio GDs neutral line is the musical line and the musical line is the neutral line. You have compared them with the same DSP?
 

 The musical line is not softer,  I consider it Audiogds audiophile line with better accuracy and tonality,  this can make it sound harsh with some amps.  The neutral line colors things a bit to take away but also easier to amplify for a not so linear amp.
 
 
As far as Ref-8 vs Ref9,  go to the website and you can see that they have different analog circuitry,  the Ref9 is not simply an unbalanced version of the Ref8.  The ref8 is the top dog flagship Audio-gd.
 

 

[regal]

No offense Ipod but that SNR spec is meaningless in regards to SQ,  do you listen much above 100dB?  If you do I hope a hearing aide is in your short term budget.  Let me put it this way Audiogd has more parts cost invested in the Ref8 than any other of their DAC's,  and the comparision shootouts show preference to the 8 over the 7. The Ref8 is the only DAC from Audio-gd without an opamp shown in the analog stage (its the only 100% descrete.)   In China the number 8 is the luckiest most regarded number.  If these don't add up to make it the flagship I think you should at least buy one and form your own opinion

 

[Wood]

I am not an owner of a Audio-gd dac, but I see the terms warm and neutral bounced around a lot in connection with these dacs. I should imagine it may help a lot, for someone who is interested in these products, but cant decide what 'flavour' to spend their hard earned cash on, if a clearer explanation of warm vs neutral is given.
 
For instance, as I understand the term warm, it means tonal and timbrel accuracy, and  the term neutral, as objectivity and truth. Therefore, because the term warm, would be covered under the description neutral (true tone and timbre), an argument over the merits of  warm vs neutral is based on false dichotomy. 
 
But unfortunately, on the Audio-gd threads the term warm often comes across as meaning coloured and  the term neutral as meaning cold (another type of coloration)  surly neither of which can appeal. What gives?
 
Better definition would be most welcome as these products cannot be auditioned.
 
Thanks

 

[realmassy]

Also, I'd like to highlight what the OP said: the DAC19 sounds softer than the Ref.9, to his ears.
And that is the same word I'd use to describe my Ref.5. Softer, not warmer. That kind of 'softness' that IMHO leads to a flatter sound which I noticed most on piano music.

 

[regal]

Quote:

I am not an owner of a Audio-gd dac, but I see the terms warm and neutral bounced around a lot in connection with these dacs. I should imagine it may help a lot, for someone who is interested in these products, but cant decide what 'flavour' to spend their hard earned cash on, if a clearer explanation of warm vs neutral is given.
 
For instance, as I understand the term warm, it means tonal and timbrel accuracy, and  the term neutral, as objectivity and truth. Therefore, because the term warm, would be covered under the description neutral (true tone and timbre), an argument over the merits of  warm vs neutral is based on false dichotomy. 
 
But unfortunately, on the Audio-gd threads the term warm often comes across as meaning coloured and  the term neutral as meaning cold (another type of coloration)  surly neither of which can appeal. What gives?
 
Better definition would be most welcome as these products cannot be auditioned.
 
Thanks

Please describe you favorite flavor of ice cream to someone who hasn't tasted it.  Launguage is finite,  it has limits and boundaries,  especially with regard to human perception.

 

[Wood]

True regal, if I have a favorite colour or flavour it is pointless arguing my preference in taste over somebody elses. But I can ask you, if your favorite flavour is strawberry, for instance, which ice cream do you think tastes the closest to strawberries.

 

[regal]

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True regal, if I have a favorite colour or flavour it is pointless arguing my preference in taste over somebody elses. But I can ask you, if your favorite flavour is strawberry, for instance, which ice cream do you think tastes the closest to strawberries.

Being an engineer my literary skills are not great,   I listen with my right brain where language plays no part so I'm not good at describing sound except specific details in specific songs (meaningless to others, as I've learned on this forum.)  I'm also a believer that much as room acoustics play huge roll in a speaker system,  an individuals ear geometry and perception of sound can play a huge role in headphone system evals.  What is right for one guy is wrong for the next.   Being an engineer I don't follow RMAA results at all,  knowing what they are based on and how little they correlate to how the brain processes sound.   Its a fascinating field,  in a way we head-fiers trying to put words to a DAC's sound is akin to wordsmithing consciousness  (philospoh
Something philosphophers have been unsuccessfully  tackling since Socrates.

 

[haloxt]

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But unfortunately, on the Audio-gd threads the term warm often comes across as meaning coloured and  the term neutral as meaning cold (another type of coloration)  surly neither of which can appeal. What gives?

It's relative. Diamond differential is supposed to sound warm relative to ACSS. ACSS is supposed to sound more cold or less warm relative to diamond differential.

 

[IPodPJ]

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No offense Ipod but that SNR spec is meaningless in regards to SQ,  do you listen much above 100dB?  If you do I hope a hearing aide is in your short term budget.  Let me put it this way Audiogd has more parts cost invested in the Ref8 than any other of their DAC's,  and the comparision shootouts show preference to the 8 over the 7. The Ref8 is the only DAC from Audio-gd without an opamp shown in the analog stage (its the only 100% descrete.)   In China the number 8 is the luckiest most regarded number.  If these don't add up to make it the flagship I think you should at least buy one and form your own opinion

How could it have a higher parts cost?  The Ref-8 sells for $100 less.
 
And like I said, I would love one.  But I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[regal]

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How could it have a higher parts cost?  The Ref-8 sells for $100 less.
 
And like I said, I would love one.  But I don't see it happening any time soon.

 
Its oobvious looking at the diagrams and pictures,  he can charge more for the re7 cause there is more demand.