[pataburd]

Now:

NOS, NO Dither, NO TDA . . . and Rachmaninov, "Symphonic Dances" . . .

 

[matts19]

Hi guys, recently I bought R2R-11 and I have a question. This was my first Audio-GD purchase. It quickly became my favorite DAC, beating Ares 2, Audial AYA 5, MHDT Orchid and many others I owned. R2R-11 isn't the most detailed DAC, far from it - those more expensive DACs were technically superior but there is this "black background" that I really like in R2R-11. I like it so much that I even considered buying R2R-11 MK2 as it was supposed to have even better "black background". But I really don't need an internal amp, so buying MK2 seems like a waste of money to me.

So the question is, what other Audio-GD "dedicated" DAC would have this kind of black background ? As you know different DACs from the same company can sound quite different. I just want to get a dedicated DAC that is "black" if you know what I mean, just like R2R-11, and it doesn't necessarily have to be from Audio-GD I guess after all...

 

[FredA]

Hi guys, recently I bought R2R-11 and I have a question. This was my first Audio-GD purchase. It quickly became my favorite DAC, beating Ares 2, Audial AYA 5, MHDT Orchid and many others I owned. R2R-11 isn't the most detailed DAC, far from it - those more expensive DACs were technically superior but there is this "black background" that I really like in R2R-11. I like it so much that I even considered buying R2R-11 MK2 as it was supposed to have even better "black background". But I really don't need an internal amp, so buying MK2 seems like a waste of money to me.

So the question is, what other Audio-GD "dedicated" DAC would have this kind of black background ? As you know different DACs from the same company can sound quite different. I just want to get a dedicated DAC that is "black" if you know what I mean, just like R2R-11, and it doesn't necessarily have to be from Audio-GD I guess after all...

I would go with the mkii. Buy a di20 with it and and a good rca interconnect.

 

[matts19]

I would go with the mkii. Buy a di20 with it and and a good rca interconnect.

I take it that R2R-11 MK2 is still the choice for my "black background" preference despite that I don't need an amplifier, huh ? So be it then Also I've been waiting for a used Gustard U18 to become available, and DI20 was not even a consideration (I didn't know about it !) . Would you say DI20 > U18 ?

 

[sajunky]

Would you say DI20 > U18 ?

This is what Gustard users say, yes. But if I remember correctly, there were rather comparisons with HE version. Still I believe, a cheaper non-HE version is superior.

If your source is USB, you can go cheaper and try S/PDIF converter like a "poorman DDC" Douk Audio U2Pro, version with ultra-low jitter oscilators. It will be a real test whether you need a DDC.

3rd option is DIY upgrading Amanero board with Crystek or NDK oscilators.

I tried in my room both #2 and #3, they give similar (significant) improvements to the "black background". Details are brought forward, reverbations on a decay last longer and more exciting, harmonics become coherent in all spectrum. That will be a moment to think about upper Audio GD DAC.

In all cases adding USB ground loop breaker like external PSU for USB 2.0 hub or for U2Pro or even dedicated device like ifi Defender make a difference, but avoid USB reclockers, they cost more and essentially do the same.

EDIT: I recall your post in Douk Audio thread, I need to add that upgrading Amanero module is cheaper and sounds better, assuming ground loops are taken care of. I delayed publishing my final verdict, a reason is that for the last year we are experiencing scheduled power cuts, Douk Audio haven't been able to burn correctly, it may be unfair. However upgrading oscilators on the Amanero cost less and internal R2R-11 power supply is a high quality, there is no need for further power supply tweaks.

 

[FredA]

I take it that R2R-11 MK2 is still the choice for my "black background" preference despite that I don't need an amplifier, huh ? So be it then Also I've been waiting for a used Gustard U18 to become available, and DI20 was not even a consideration (I didn't know about it !) . Would you say DI20 > U18 ?

My point is the sound of the r2r 11 is quite unique. If you use it with a great di, it makes it even better. As for black background, you can't go wrong with the higher priced audio-gd r2r. For the money, an mkii fed by a di, eventually externally clocked, performs at a very high level.

 

[malenak]

Is there anyone who can compare R2R 11 mk2 with Hifiman EF400?

 

[matts19]

This is what Gustard users say, yes. But if I remember correctly, there were rather comparisons with HE version. Still I believe, a cheaper non-HE version is superior.

If your source is USB, you can go cheaper and try S/PDIF converter like a "poorman DDC" Douk Audio U2Pro, version with ultra-low jitter oscilators. It will be a real test whether you need a DDC.

3rd option is DIY upgrading Amanero board with Crystek or NDK oscilators.

I tried in my room both #2 and #3, they give similar (significant) improvements to the "black background". Details are brought forward, reverbations on a decay last longer and more exciting, harmonics become coherent in all spectrum. That will be a moment to think about upper Audio GD DAC.

In all cases adding USB ground loop breaker like external PSU for USB 2.0 hub or for U2Pro or even dedicated device like ifi Defender make a difference, but avoid USB reclockers, they cost more and essentially do the same.

EDIT: I recall your post in Douk Audio thread, I need to add that upgrading Amanero module is cheaper and sounds better, assuming ground loops are taken care of. I delayed publishing my final verdict, a reason is that for the last year we are experiencing scheduled power cuts, Douk Audio haven't been able to burn correctly, it may be unfair. However upgrading oscilators on the Amanero cost less and internal R2R-11 power supply is a high quality, there is no need for further power supply tweaks.

Actually I have since bought Gustard U12 which came with AS318B and I STILL preferred R2R-11's Amanero USB with an unknown clock(OEM??) vs COAX input via U12. Maybe I am not as affected by USB noise because I use a tablet rather than a PC to feed digital signal.. maybe Amanero is better than XMOS (in U12).. or maybe R2R-11 SPDIF input implementation is so-so. Of course, to each their own (ears). But this tells me that I *might* be better off with DI-20 (Amanero) than Gustard U18 (XMOS).

But I will also look into upgrading R2R-11's Amanero board with better clock regardless. BTW, would that require re-soldering or is there like a DIP socket ? Thanks.

 

[FredA]

Actually I have since bought Gustard U12 which came with AS318B and I STILL preferred R2R-11's Amanero USB with an unknown clock(OEM??) vs COAX input via U12. Maybe I am not as affected by USB noise because I use a tablet rather than a PC to feed digital signal.. maybe Amanero is better than XMOS (in U12).. or maybe R2R-11 SPDIF input implementation is so-so. Of course, to each their own (ears). But this tells me that I *might* be better off with DI-20 (Amanero) than Gustard U18 (XMOS).

But I will also look into upgrading R2R-11's Amanero board with better clock regardless. BTW, would that require re-soldering or is there like a DIP socket ? Thanks.

You can order a board from Kingwa. It is quite tricky to install. Or else, you need to do surface-mount de-soldering/soldering to install the new xos.

 

[sajunky]

Actually I have since bought Gustard U12 which came with AS318B and I STILL preferred R2R-11's Amanero USB with an unknown clock(OEM??) vs COAX input via U12. Maybe I am not as affected by USB noise because I use a tablet rather than a PC to feed digital signal.. maybe Amanero is better than XMOS (in U12).. or maybe R2R-11 SPDIF input implementation is so-so. Of course, to each their own (ears). But this tells me that I *might* be better off with DI-20 (Amanero) than Gustard U18 (XMOS).

But I will also look into upgrading R2R-11's Amanero board with better clock regardless. BTW, would that require re-soldering or is there like a DIP socket ? Thanks.

This (highlighted) is probably a reason. And you also reported that Douk Audio didn't bring improvements, the same reason. You don't need a DDC. It is why I suggest to upgrade clocks on Amanero in first place. Here is my post with a photo of upgraded clocks.

And here is a post with more detailed instruction on example of Douk Audio, the same apply. Amanero has standard SCTF oscilators 5*7mm, the same as U2Pro. I don't remember whether there are pads for smaller NDK parts. You can order Crysteks in Mouser or Digikey, bring it to cellular repair shop for a job, the easiest way.

 

[matts19]

Unfortunately soldering is not something I am knowledgeable or brave enough to venture into If I want to upgrade my R2R-11 I will have to get MK2 version at some point in the future. A friend used to say the easiest problem is one that can be solved with money. Except that a new problem arises then (that of a wallet).

 

[FredA]

Unfortunately soldering is not something I am knowledgeable or brave enough to venture into If I want to upgrade my R2R-11 I will have to get MK2 version at some point in the future. A friend used to say the easiest problem is one that can be solved with money. Except that a new problem arises then (that of a wallet).

Life is costly.

 

[OCC7N]

How about the R1 model if you dont need amp?

Im actually interested in bot the R11 or R1 myself. My Sundara needs a friend

 

[matts19]

How about the R1 model if you dont need amp?

Im actually interested in bot the R11 or R1 myself. My Sundara needs a friend

I considered R1 but a couple of reviews seem to point to a little bit of forwardness in mid and vocals.

https://www.av2day.com/2021/04/audio-gd-r-1-affordable-way-to-experience-r2r-sound/
"the DAC had the tendency to thrust the vocals a bit forward from the mix .."

https://alpha-audio.net/review/multitest-the-best-dac-for-1000-euros/2
"we notice that we experience more calmness with the RME than with this Audio GD. Perhaps because sometimes background details and effects are drawn more to the top and softer, high-frequency information comes forward too much for our liking. That makes this Audio GD R1 come across as less ‘black’ than the rest of this test field."

It makes me wonder as someone who dislikes forwardness and likes black background, but then without having a listen, I can neither confirm nor deny, as words can be misleading sometimes...

 

[sajunky]

It makes me wonder as someone who dislikes forwardness and likes black background, but then without having a listen, I can neither confirm nor deny, as words can be misleading sometimes...

And dictionary can be confused as well. I use term "black background" for describing Delta-Sigma sound. Proper R2R implementation do not have "black background", something is always happening in the background except when digital zero is played. In extreme cases words "sterile clean" need to be added when output stage is made of nested opamp like In Topping A90/30 or THX789. Sterile, as nothing is reproduced during fast transients.

I would disregard reviews that compare sound of DS implementations with R2R, especially supermarket grade brands like RME. My 2c.

R-1 is not a model for building high-end gear, but it has ultra-low jitter oscilators and properly made bi-directional USB isolation (R2R-11 mk2 implementation is not the best in this area).