[TheOneInYellow]

Spoiler: zambz

I personally found the open EL-8s a little more neutral than the LCD-2, they are a bit closer to the LCD-X which I really liked personally as I found the LCD-2Fs still a pinch too dark for me.

I first heard the closed EL-8s late last year and they were a slightly pre-production model that Audeze had sent the dealer and quite frankly, they sounded absolutely AWFUL!  If anyone asks me what the closed EL-8s are like, well that's what I'll tell them.  I highly doubt the dealer will get new samples for customers to hear of the 2016 model but I'll ask as they are the official distributor of Audeze here.

The open EL-8 at the store was also pre-production and sent by Audeze.  The magnetic connectors kept falling out constantly and I was assured that this was fixed in the production model ... and clearly it's been improved again since.

Further to this, the open EL-8 at the store seemed to have a more noticeable dip in the lower treble (closer to what Tyll measured) while my purchased pair is actually very smooth and only has a little bit of a pulled back lower treble (for me, the absolutely perfect amount to avoid harshness and still a very present, neutral and accurate sound).

I recently heard the SINE and that sounded absolutely incredible, far far far better than the closed EL-8 I had tried last year.

There's no doubt that Audeze are a small company and on one hand, I really appreciate that they make changes available to customers.  Just not a fan of this moving target mentality and doing something like they did with the LCD-4 where they literally doubled the impedance and not renaming the model is a huge deal.  I demoed the LCD-4 at the store and loved it, it also ran fine from my amp, was that the old one or the new one?  The LCD-4 that Tyll disliked in his review, old or new?  The open EL-8 that Tyll measured a major dip on, what revision was that because I don't hear that on mine at all and have measured it (with what I have) and confirmed no dip at all in that region?  Tyll's review of these models likely will have an impact on sales ... so it's in Audeze's best interest to make it obvious that there is a new revision of these and offer them to someone like Tyll to review.

All Audeze reviews are now basically redundant and it will be impossible to know if new reviews are reviewing the 2015 model or the 2016 model unless they literally confirm the production date in the paperwork.

I really hope they consider comfort improvements in newer revisions and anything they can do to make their headphones lighter.  Audeze headphones are some of the most uncomfortable high-end headphones (excluding Grado of course ...).  That thick heavy LCD headband should have been discontinued and replaced much earlier than their drivers as the headband is a way bigger problem for most.

I'm going to be honest, I agree are respect your opinions on virtually everything you have said.

The real reason I started this topic was: to get everybody in our hobby to know of the changes, to make sure that when talking about Audeze reviews we must mention that in regards to sound quality they are redundant (except for Sine and EL8 Titanium of course), and for professional reviewers to know that as a community we would appreciate their opinions and pieces regarding this topic.

I really hope reviewers out there will re-review all updated Audeze 2016 models, but also mention to their readers that changes have occurred.
In that latter part, that mentioning has been a done in passing in the articles I published on the starting thread post. The changes have yet to be seen written as front page material.
For one of the most successful audio brands in the world, loved and well lauded, I find it completely strange that professional audio reviewers haven't even written opinions on this as a main topic, or mentioned in social media.

On the other hand, better Audeze headphones AWW YEAH!

Regarding Audeze ergonomics, only true for LCD line. EL8 and Sine are awesome in ergonomics!

 

[Dillan]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Originally Posted by zambz /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   
I personally found the open EL-8s a little more neutral than the LCD-2, they are a bit closer to the LCD-X which I really liked personally as I found the LCD-2Fs still a pinch too dark for me.
 
I first heard the closed EL-8s late last year and they were a slightly pre-production model that Audeze had sent the dealer and quite frankly, they sounded absolutely AWFUL!  If anyone asks me what the closed EL-8s are like, well that's what I'll tell them.  I highly doubt the dealer will get new samples for customers to hear of the 2016 model but I'll ask as they are the official distributor of Audeze here.
 
The open EL-8 at the store was also pre-production and sent by Audeze.  The magnetic connectors kept falling out constantly and I was assured that this was fixed in the production model ... and clearly it's been improved again since.
 
Further to this, the open EL-8 at the store seemed to have a more noticeable dip in the lower treble (closer to what Tyll measured) while my purchased pair is actually very smooth and only has a little bit of a pulled back lower treble (for me, the absolutely perfect amount to avoid harshness and still a very present, neutral and accurate sound).
 
I recently heard the SINE and that sounded absolutely incredible, far far far better than the closed EL-8 I had tried last year.
 
There's no doubt that Audeze are a small company and on one hand, I really appreciate that they make changes available to customers.  Just not a fan of this moving target mentality and doing something like they did with the LCD-4 where they literally doubled the impedance and not renaming the model is a huge deal.  I demoed the LCD-4 at the store and loved it, it also ran fine from my amp, was that the old one or the new one?  The LCD-4 that Tyll disliked in his review, old or new?  The open EL-8 that Tyll measured a major dip on, what revision was that because I don't hear that on mine at all and have measured it (with what I have) and confirmed no dip at all in that region?  Tyll's review of these models likely will have an impact on sales ... so it's in Audeze's best interest to make it obvious that there is a new revision of these and offer them to someone like Tyll to review.
 
All Audeze reviews are now basically redundant and it will be impossible to know if new reviews are reviewing the 2015 model or the 2016 model unless they literally confirm the production date in the paperwork.
 
I really hope they consider comfort improvements in newer revisions and anything they can do to make their headphones lighter.  Audeze headphones are some of the most uncomfortable high-end headphones (excluding Grado of course ...).  That thick heavy LCD headband should have been discontinued and replaced much earlier than their drivers as the headband is a way bigger problem for most.

 

 
I personally didn't like the closed back version. I thought the bass was lackluster and lacking detail compared to the open version. As well as a bunch of other differences that set them apart.
 
The Sine seems very interesting, but I haven't had a chance to demo them yet. How do they compare to the EL-8 open and closed?

 

[TheOneInYellow]

I personally didn't like the closed back version. I thought the bass was lackluster and lacking detail compared to the open version. As well as a bunch of other differences that set them apart.

The Sine seems very interesting, but I haven't had a chance to demo them yet. How do they compare to the EL-8 open and closed?

I'm sorry dude, but you'll need to add what versions did you test.

The older discontinued 2015 EL8 series had awful frequency issues but decent bass, just not very, er, textured, almost monotonous. The 2015 EL8 CB was particularly harsh and grating on the (lower) treble.

In direct comparison to the new EL8 Titanium, which is internally the same as 2016 EL8 CB (not 2015 version), it's not even a comparison. It's a different headphone.
Smooth mids, beautifully strong and fast bass (my GOD you don't understand bass is addictive!), and detailed, well layered treble.

From what you've described of the EL8 CB, it sounds like you tested the defunct 2015 version.
Or we have different opinions (and that's fine).

So yeah, let let us know which one (certificate of authenticity card will help). ^^

 

[Carlsan]

Interested in well in the EL8 closed back. If the 2016 version is the same as the titanium in sound, then that would be a game changer for that line, especially given all the bad reviews.
Wouldn't mind one for the office, if it is that improved.

 

[Dillan]

Sorry! I actually tested the 2015 CB.
 
The open pair I tested was the 2016 and I didn't even realize that until just now.

 
Soooo.. I guess its unfair for me to be harsh on the closed back EL-8s as I haven't heard the new version (and it was especially dumb to compare them the way I did).
 
However, I did fall in love with the newer open back version. I really just want the new cipher cable to hurry up and sell separately so I can put the two together.

 

[TheOneInYellow]

Sorry! I actually tested the 2015 CB.

The open pair I tested was the 2016 and I didn't even realize that until just now.

Soooo.. I guess its unfair for me to be harsh on the closed back EL-8s as I haven't heard the new version (and it was especially dumb to compare them the way I did).

However, I did fall in love with the newer open back version. I really just want the new cipher cable to hurry up and sell separately so I can put the two together.

Dude, no need to apologise.

In fact, your impressions are awesome.

You just confirmed how different the 2015 EL8 series is to the 2016 EL8 series is.
You see, your description of the 2016 EL8 (open back) does not conform to the 2015 EL8 version.
THAT'S HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE THE NEW SERIES IS.

You basically took one for the team without realising it, and I for one am grateful.

I'm really happy you enjoyed the new 2016 EL8 (open back).

As for Cypher/Cipher cable, contact Audeze customer services ^^

 

[DivergeUnify]

The upside I see to them not making official new models is that we keep the low prices offered by various dealers already. A new LCD2 would be $1200 msrb, where as they can easily be found for $750 now

 

[mysticstryk]

The upside I see to them not making official new models is that we keep the low prices offered by various dealers already. A new LCD2 would be $1200 msrb, where as they can easily be found for $750 now

Audeze sets the msrp. So unless Audeze wants retailers to charge more, the pricing would remain the same.

As for sale prices, that's up to the retailer. Considering old revisions are being phased out, retailers will likely keep sales going from time to time.

 

[DivergeUnify]

Audeze sets the msrp. So unless Audeze wants retailers to charge more, the pricing would remain the same.

As for sale prices, that's up to the retailer. Considering old revisions are being phased out, retailers will likely keep sales going from time to time.

that's my point. Keeping these revisions under the hood and not creating a new version is, price wise, to our benefit $$ wise

 

[zambz]

Regarding Audeze ergonomics, only true for LCD line. EL8 and Sine are awesome in ergonomics!

Hey mate, I honestly haven't found the ergonomics to be that great on the EL-8.  I find that they get very hot after a short period of time and the clamping force on both models is too much  for me and it doesn't seem to be getting better (I've had my EL-8s for 4 months).  I often take breaks when wearing them, which bugs me because I want them on my head all day long due to how they sound
 
I REALLY love the new cables they make on the EL-8s and SINEs though, that flat style.  It's really easy to work with on a desk and doesn't ever get tangled.  The connectors on my open EL-8 have also been perfectly fine (touch wood ... touches wood on EL-8s ...).
 
The sound of my open EL-8s honestly is one of the best things I've ever heard, and I've honestly heard almost every high-end headphone on the market.  The ONLY headphones that sounded better were the LCD-X, 3 and 4 but then you face the huge size, clunky design and comfort issues, let alone the price tag.
 
The EL-8s are faster than the HD-800s ... by quite a margin.  In fact, I would say that the EL-8s absolutely wipe the floor with the HD-800 (excluding soundstage).  I also preferred them to the Ether, Dharma, HE-560 and HE-1000.
 
When I heard the SINE, I did notice that they were less pulled back in the upper mids than Audeze headphones usually are and this didn't bother me, although I do love that smoother sound with those frequencies taken back a little.

 

[Gavin C4]

I would like to know what did they do to the LCD-2 in this update. Cuz the sound maybe different to the LCD-2 demo in the shop that I tried and I am planning to order one soon.
 
If Audeze could change the name of the product according to the update like Rev. 1 / 2 / 3 would be very helpful. Ninja changes is not good for the community. Or Audeze thinks the changes are not audible so it is not worth noting? 

 

[Gavin C4]

  I completely agree, I'm making precisely the same point as the rest.  I'm all for them making changes for the better and improving their technology, no doubt!  But the lack of press releases and clear revision numbers is damaging to their reputation and confusing to me as a customer, particularly when buying second hand.  As also mentioned, the fact that non-fazor drivers will be replaced with fazor drivers if they fail (and old revs with new revs) means that customers own products that are effectively EOL; when they die, they will get a new model that may or may not be to their liking.
 

 
I have encountered a similar problem. For westone um1 earphone that I owned and they died within the warranty period, but unlucky that they are discontinued. Instead of giving me an repair, they gave me a new earphone of the same price range. The sound is a bit different and it took me some time to get used to the change. 
Sometimes the change is a bit frustrating if it is very noticeable. 

 

[DivergeUnify]

I believe this would be the second revision of the fazored lcd2s
 
For some reason we label the first fazor lcd2.2F
 
when really it should be lcd 2.3 (considering it was a THIRD revision)
 
Then there was a revision in November 2015 which would be lcd2.4
 
If this 2016 update is an update over the November update, this should be LCD2.5
 
 

  I would like to know what did they do to the LCD-2 in this update. Cuz the sound maybe different to the LCD-2 demo in the shop that I tried and I am planning to order one soon.
 
If Audeze could change the name of the product according to the update like Rev. 1 / 2 / 3 would be very helpful. Ninja changes is not good for the community. Or Audeze thinks the changes are not audible so it is not worth noting? 

 

[TheOneInYellow]

I believe this would be the second revision of the fazored lcd2s

For some reason we label the first fazor lcd2.2F

when really it should be lcd 2.3 (considering it was a THIRD revision)

Then there was a revision in November 2015 which would be lcd2.4

If this 2016 update is an update over the November update, this should be LCD2.5

I've been a bit to busy today to reply to various threads, but I thought to chime in on your post.

If we were to follow your nomenclature scheme, you would be correct up until Nov 2015.

In my first thread starter post I mentioned that Audeze introduced the 2016 updates at the very end of last year, but I was unsure of when.

So, I believe that if you are correct that Audeze introduced changes to the LCD-2 in Nov 2015, they are most likely 2016 LCD-2.

May I ask for a source of your info regarding the LCD-2 Nov 2015 update? It might shed light as to when Audeze rolled out the 2016 line...

 

[DivergeUnify]

I've been a bit to busy today to reply to various threads, but I thought to chime in on your post.

If we were to follow your nomenclature scheme, you would be correct up until Nov 2015.

In my first thread starter post I mentioned that Audeze introduced the 2016 updates at the very end of last year, but I was unsure of when.

So, I believe that if you are correct that Audeze introduced changes to the LCD-2 in Nov 2015, they are most likely 2016 LCD-2.

May I ask for a source of your info regarding the LCD-2 Nov 2015 update? It might shed light as to when Audeze rolled out the 2016 line...

 
If you look around November 2015 in the lcd2 thread, you can see reports of the change in bass response.  Old fazors have bass roll off something up to something like 10db.  New ones have less than 3db bass roll off.  After scrawling the lcd3 failure thread, this correlated with a post by a user who had spoke with an audeze rep, stating they changed the drivers around that time.  Hence why it's called a "silent update".  
 
I got my LCD2 drives replaced Nov 15 and it had amazing bass response compared to my previous 2 fazor, much closer to what I imagine the 2.1 and 2.2 were like