Audeze LCD-4z - Impressions Thread

[Sonic Defender]

Echoing the comments about a pure copper cable being a better fit for the 4z's, I got the Audeze premium black/copper cable today, and it is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the silver/black version that came stock with my 4z... it extends deeper, the top end is smoother, and transients are more defined. I'm an engineer and have quite sensitive ears but it's really apparent to me. It's just a much more musical and engaging experience now. All new 4z's ship with this new black/copper cable by the way, so I encourage any existing 4z owners to try it out. It's 100% pure copper compared to the silver/black which is silver-plated copper.

As an engineer you certainly know about providing solid scientific evidence for all decisions made for any design or project. So where is the definitive evidence that proves that cables make an audible difference?

No need to answer that, we already know that no such proof exists. Just imagine you going to your boss and proposing substituting a proven material for something with no evidence or testing and asking them to just trust you. How long would you have your job for?

Imagine the mess we would have if we built bridges, electrical grids and approved medicines with gut feelings and subjective accounts of efficacy.

 

[dewald0]

Well we aren't building bridges and electrical grids here, are we? Audio is subjective, and I can hear a difference, which is why I shared my point of view. I'd like for you to definitively prove that electrons move exactly the same across a wire that's made up of copper vs. silver-plated copper. I would bet it is not identical. Whether or not you can perceive the difference is not my problem. Frankly, your attitude towards me is really off-putting and I'll be blocking you.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Well we aren't building bridges and electrical grids here, are we? Audio is subjective, and I can hear a difference, which is why I shared my point of view. I'd like for you to definitively prove that electrons move exactly the same across a wire that's made up of copper vs. silver-plated copper. I would bet it is not identical. Whether or not you can perceive the difference is not my problem. Frankly, your attitude towards me is really off-putting and I'll be blocking you.

My attitude really isn't towards you, not personally. I don't know you at all. Based on your measured response, I suspect I would probably really get along with you.

My response is because you used an appeal to expertise, I'm an engineer, as part of your claim. That rightfully opened this up to my question about why is there no need for evidence here. What field relies more on the application of science and rigorous evidence than engineering?

Anyway, I said audible. I'm positive that there are differences in how electrons move through the different metals. I've seen that type of proof. But it establishes measureability not audibility. Very different things.

 

[Tchoupitoulas]

Frankly, your attitude towards me is really off-putting and I'll be blocking you.

As it happens, funnily enough, I've no idea who that person is because I'd already put them on the ignore list.

Thanks for sharing your point of view; I appreciate the recommendation.

 

[spwood]

You might enjoy this thread, though it’s hardly definitive.

Thread 'My six-year-old daughter flawlessly passed a blind test between a silver-plated wire and a copper one'

Nov 25, 2023

Hi Floks!

Today, I received a high-purity, balanced copper cable handmade in Poland. I decided to compare it with my existing silver-plated cable as a fun activity with my daughter. She thoroughly enjoyed the process, and the results were quite surprising.

We used the same equipment, maintained the same volume, and played the same 15-second song clip. My daughter wore a mask throughout the experiment.

The equipment we used included an iBasso DC04 Pro connected to an iPhone, a Meze 109pro playing a song on Tidal. Both cables were terminated with Pentacon 4.4 connectors. One was the...

• Dragonmilenario
• Replies: 675
• Forum: Sound Science

• 

 

[Richy Hughes]

All new 4z's ship with this new black/copper cable by the way, so I encourage any existing 4z owners to try it out. It's 100% pure copper compared to the silver/black which is silver-plated copper.

Ahh interesting! I had no idea they were actually different, it's not clearly delineated from my region's distributor. The 'premium LCD' are labelled silver-plated copper in the supportive text, it's just that you can order it in different 'colours'.

I wish I'd have had the copper one stock.... although mainly because I prefer the colour match for the headphone

 

[AcousticMatt]

As someone who once owned the LCD-4 and love its bass performance and layer separation, but didn't like such a dip in the mids, would you guys recommend the LCD-4z?

 

[Fibre101]

As someone who once owned the LCD-4 and love its bass performance and layer separation, but didn't like such a dip in the mids, would you guys recommend the LCD-4z?

Had around a week with both to compare. The only thing that sets them apart is the vocals and that the og is more lush with a warmer tilt. To me, they seem to have the same resolution with the 4z sometimes sounding a bit faster with a slight edge in imaging. (not by much) The 4z tends to give a bit more sparkle in the treble whereas the og 4 is less. Only thing is the 4z reacts well to solid state as opposed to tube stuff. If anything, the only thing that stood out to me more was how both handled vocals slightly differently depending on your gear. I prefered the og for vocals but I honestly think that the 4z's are more of an all rounder when it comes to sound.

 

[Richy Hughes]

As someone who once owned the LCD-4 and love its bass performance and layer separation, but didn't like such a dip in the mids, would you guys recommend the LCD-4z?

I can't speak to a comparison from personal experience, but the change in pads from late 2020 LCD units onwards alone have added some of that 3-4k region. This pic lifted from a little earlier in the thread, courtesy of mightytison. (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-lcd-4z-impressions-thread.876943/post-17217256)

 

[Fibre101]

I can't speak to a comparison from personal experience, but the change in pads from late 2020 LCD units onwards alone have added some of that 3-4k region. This pic lifted from a little earlier in the thread, courtesy of mightytison. (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-lcd-4z-impressions-thread.876943/post-17217256)

Yeah, i did have both units with upgraded pads from audeze when I compared them. The one thing that has allowed me to enjoy these headphones are the EQ capabilities. I EQ everything anyways.

 

[Richy Hughes]

Yeah, i did have both units with upgraded pads from audeze when I compared them.

Sure - I was mainly making the point that if AcousticMatt's OG4 were born prior to late 2020, then even the pads alone on a recent 4z would make a difference. (And so would the new pads on an OG)
FWIW - when I was asking around prior to making a purchase, a few mastering engineers basically said the same as you.
Not about vocals, but about there being a bit more upper spectrum, and not being quite so lush in the lows (even though the tuning is very similar on paper).
----

So on that tangent - This was quite an interesting tour of many of the LCDs. There's not a lot of 4z talk on YouTube tbh, especially not 4 - 4z comparison. But Justin gets into it here. Shame there's not also the MX4 to compare, but it's a good vid. When I spoke to him personally, he said if he had to choose between the 4 and the 4z for critical work, he'd choose the 4z.

 

[Fibre101]

Sure - I was mainly making the point that if AcousticMatt's OG4 were born prior to late 2020, then even the pads alone on a recent 4z would make a difference.
FWIW - when I was asking around prior to making a purchase, a few mastering engineers basically said the same as you.
Not about vocals, but about there being a bit more upper spectrum, and not being quite so lush in the lows (even though the tuning is very similar on paper).
----

So on that tangent - This was quite an interesting tour of many of the LCDs. There's not a lot of 4z talk on YouTube tbh, especially not 4 - 4z comparison. But Justin gets into it here. Shame there's not also the MX4 to compare, but it's a good vid. When I spoke to him personally, he said if he had to choose between the 4 and the 4z for critical work, he'd choose the 4z.

Interesting. That video is a must watch. Pretty much sums up what I said. To compare and contrast, the OG 4 has a wetter sound than the 4Z in some ways. Both have fast drivers, but this is how it comes across to me—if I had to put it into an analogy.

 

[Kozwoz]

I own both the LCD4 and 4z. Just want to add to what's already been said. I perceive the LCD4 as more holographic relative to 4z. I find the LCD4 captures the emotions of the track a bit better whereas 4z is matter of fact and can sound more transparent and flat.

I think the key differences as Audeze explained to me a long time ago is they way the sound resonates due to the materials of the cups. Magnesium alloy in 4z makes the sound faster, sound pings back faster due to inherent properties of this material. LCD4 decay is a touch longer and has slightly warmer tone due to wood rings and collective mass/weight of ear cups.

 

[Fibre101]

I own both the LCD4 and 4z. Just want to add to what's already been said. I perceive the LCD4 as more holographic relative to 4z. I find the LCD4 captures the emotions of the track a bit better whereas 4z is matter of fact and can sound more transparent and flat.

I think the key differences as Audeze explained to me a long time ago is they way the sound resonates due to the materials of the cups. Magnesium alloy in 4z makes the sound faster, sound pings back faster due to inherent properties of this material. LCD4 decay is a touch longer and has slightly warmer tone due to wood rings and collective mass/weight of ear cups.

This makes sense. That's why I find vocals a bit more enjoyable on the og 4. The role of wood in shaping sound is often overlooked, but it definitely has an impact. It's one of the reasons ZMF headphones have their distinctive sound.

 

[AcousticMatt]

Thanks for the replies all. My LCD-4 I bought 2022 and the owner said it was post the 2020 change. To me it sounded amazing in so many ways. Unparalleled for movie soundtracks (except maybe Susvara, but I preferred the weighted sound of the LCD-4 over that headphone for this kind of stuff), bass stuff, the holographic nature of it was also amazing... but the mids just seemed too dipped for my taste. I ultimately switched to LCD-3 almost every time because of it.