Audeze LCD-4

[sahmen]

Okay, so between the LCD-4, and the LCD-4z, is it settled which of the two sounds better (with all else being equal?) Audeze seem to think that they have the same sound signature, with the only difference being that the z is easier to drive. However, some users do hear differences between the two, with some drawing attention, especially, to the wider soundstage of the LCD-4... However, does the treble sound and behave the same way on both cans?

And here is the most important question, from my point of view: For someone who has amps that are powerful enough to drive the LCD-4, and only wants it for desktop use, and not directly out of any underpowered DAPs, computers, or handheld devices, might there be a compelling reason (e.g. better SQ) to consider the 4z instead?

I am aware that a choice, under such circumstances, would definitely depend on the subjective tastes of the buyer himself... However, I have never had the opportunity to listen to either of the two cans myself (even though I do have the X, the MX4, and the i4). In spite of the importance of subjective preferences, I am trying to find out which of the two cans the majority of owners would prefer under such circumstances, and for what reasons...

So which one to pick, the blue .or red pill? The LCD-4 or the LCD 4z?

Any takers?

 

[commtrd]

Disclaimer: I have never auditioned the LCD4. BUT I do own the i4 and 4z. IF I had proper amping to drive the LCD4 properly, there is no question in my mind that I would have bot the 4 instead of 4z. Having said that, IMHO the 4z (and i4) sound incredible. Someday I have every intention of purchasing LCD4. I doubt that I will sell the 4z though unless the 4 is just really substantially better. But for now with the relatively under powered chain I have, the 4z performs very nicely. I guess we continue to live in blissful ignorance when advantageous to do so... Looking at around 10k to 12k in amp, dac, balanced cabling, and headphones to get to where I want to be with my system and it's not gonna happen real soon. I listen to my little setup for 10 to 20 hours a day just about every day so it must not be too bad.

But yeah, I think general consensus is that IF the proper power is available to drive the LCD4, then that is the preferable option between 4 and 4z. From all that I have read.

 

[kyle1010]

I had my LCD-4s for over a year before I realized what the idea behind them was. It wasn’t until I heard them amped by a WA33 and 5 figure dac that I realized what Audeze did here. 4s scale ALL the way up. They’re actually in the top 3 headphones I’ve ever experienced with HE-1 and Abyss Phi, but most people would never know that until they heard them on that level of upstream gear. I’ve heard them out of a Chord Blu/Dave combo and they can crank out details equal to the best Stax rigs. Their capabilities are absolutely nuts if you want to take it there. When you buy an LCD-4 and listen to it on decent mid-fi level gear, sure, it’s a solid can, but you’ll have no idea the beast of a headphone you actually have until you eventually hear it on some god tier dacs and amps. It’s truly special and can grow with you and your gear budget. I’ve owned them for almost 2yrs now and I’m just now getting the WA33 to properly amp them. The speed, control, texture, and imaging of a silly-powerful tube amp with the 4s puts them on a whole other level leaving almost every other headphone in the dust. Once you hear that, even at full MSRP they’re a steal. I seriously wish anyone on the fence about the 4s could get to a dealer or CanJam and hear their full potential on top notch amps/dacs, it’s ridiculous.

 

[commtrd]

^^^Wow! Cool advisory there. Seriously does pique my interest reading missives such as this. Thanks man.

 

[astrostar59]

I had my LCD-4s for over a year before I realized what the idea behind them was. It wasn’t until I heard them amped by a WA33 and 5 figure dac that I realized what Audeze did here. 4s scale ALL the way up. They’re actually in the top 3 headphones I’ve ever experienced with HE-1 and Abyss Phi, but most people would never know that until they heard them on that level of upstream gear. I’ve heard them out of a Chord Blu/Dave combo and they can crank out details equal to the best Stax rigs. Their capabilities are absolutely nuts if you want to take it there. When you buy an LCD-4 and listen to it on decent mid-fi level gear, sure, it’s a solid can, but you’ll have no idea the beast of a headphone you actually have until you eventually hear it on some god tier dacs and amps. It’s truly special and can grow with you and your gear budget. I’ve owned them for almost 2yrs now and I’m just now getting the WA33 to properly amp them. The speed, control, texture, and imaging of a silly-powerful tube amp with the 4s puts them on a whole other level leaving almost every other headphone in the dust. Once you hear that, even at full MSRP they’re a steal. I seriously wish anyone on the fence about the 4s could get to a dealer or CanJam and hear their full potential on top notch amps/dacs, it’s ridiculous.

Totally agree 100% here. In factI said more or less the exact same thing on this thread about 4 weeks back. My DAC is the Aries Cerat Kassandra and it sounds AMAZING out of the LCD4. I also have a tube amp coming in, the Aries Cerat Genus, which apparently sounds incredible driving planers as well as speakers with it's SET 25 watts. I'll report back soon. Anyone wanting to hear this system in Spain, PM me.

 

[rgs9200m]

Yep, as I think I said a few weeks ago, my LCD4 with a Chord DAVE and a Violectric/Lake People Niimbus amp (and some good Stealth IC cables and a Danacable Lazuli Reference headphone cable) has taken the LCD4 to a supreme level, with mid-range textures and liquidity to die for. It's just plain extremely musical and listenable, even on harsh recordings from the the rock/pop era.

So, as noted in the other posts, the LCD4s do scale up a lot. They need some power and a good resolving input chain to wake them up fully, but then they have everything from superb low-end bass punch, grip, and transparency, along with sweet, informative, non-fatiguing tonality all the way up the line.

 

[sahmen]

Thanks for all the contributions so far, but I am noticing a pattern which has raised a related question :

The Woo Audio WA33, the Aries, 7 figure DACS, and even the DAVE and Niimbus are all very nice equipment, but they are each also relatively expensive--certainly more expensive than the LCD-4 itself, and probably out of reach for many prospective buyers of the LCD-4s. Nothing against such high prices per se (although they surely make me wish I had much deeper pockets than I currently do), but does one necessarily have to drop so much coin in order to bring out the full sonic magic of the LCD-4s... ?

What might one expect from rigs with less expensive components, which meet the specs for the LCD-4's power demands? Consider the following chains, for example :

1. Sonore Ultrarendu (Roon endpoint) ==>> Schiit Yggdrasil (Analog2) ==>> Violectric V281 ==>> LCD-4 . (connected with premium Silvergarde SC interconnects, and a Silvergarde S3 balanced headphone cable from Norne Audio)

or

2. Metrum Acoustics Ambre (Roon Endpoint) ==>> Metrum Acoustics Onyx ==>> Monoprice Cavalli Liquid Platinum ==>> LCD-4 (connected with the same calibre of cables as in 1.)

The components in 1 and 2 above belong to a tier of price points that falls below those of the components mentioned in my opening paragraph, although I have also heard member accounts which report the fairly successful deployment of the LCD-4 in rigs belonging to such lower tiers. On the other hand, both Chains 1 & 2 have more than enough power to drive the LCD-X, the MX4, the i4, and the 4z. Is there any reason to believe that they cannot drive the LCD-4 equally well, and with optimal results?

 

[JLoud]

I have a iMac-metrum muesette-woo wa6se and the lcd4 sounds great with it.
Also Mac mini- Yggy-woo wa5le. And while it is better sounding it isn’t night and day. I believe you would be very happy with either of the combos you mentioned.

 

[Zurakx]

Thanks for all the contributions so far, but I am noticing a pattern which has raised a related question :

The Woo Audio WA33, 7..........

Last page of this thread (480) when I asked about my benchmark dac 3 HGC paired with the LCD 4 (which I will be ordering monday if they ever reply to my email... darn holidays!), I was linked to an article where the reviewer used the LCD 4 as part of his benchmark dac review. According to his ears, he thought it outperformed the dave with the LCD-4s. The only thing he mentioned as maybe improving it a little was a 3000 dollar amp hooked up to the dac, bypassing the internal amplifier which he said would give it very marginal gains.

Heres the quote.

"Listening to David Chesky’s take on “Money” with the Audeze LCD-4s revealed that the DAC3 was fully up to the task to not only properly power these power hungry headphones, but offer outstanding definition, clarity and class leading resolution. The amplifier section of the DAC3 HGC (like the DAC section) was able to dig to the lowest depths of the recording and pull out the smallest of the smallest details and render them in a way that never came off as clinical. From the individual string picks by the musicians’ fingers to the very slight top taps on the stage; they were all there and this only helped to transport me in time and space to the actual recording of this album! The musicality of this brilliant recording was laid bare and the headphone amplifier section was able to drive the LCD-4s with full authority. Something I felt the significantly more expensive Chord Hugo TT (and DAVE for that matter) never could fully do and required a separate amplifier to get the most out of these headphones. But the 1.25W on board the DAC3 HGC were more than enough to play even the most demanding of recordings."

https://headphone.guru/benchmark-dac3-hgc-new-standard-transparency-resolution/

Now I cant attest to the performance of this DAC vs DAVE or others with the LCD-4 (since ive never heard them), but this particular reviewer seems extremely impressed with the package. I dont know how well his reviews are generally viewed by the community either, but the article is worth a read. The benchmark dac 3 hgc is about 2300 dollars.

 

[commtrd]

Thanks for all the contributions so far, but I am noticing a pattern which has raised a related question :

The Woo Audio WA33, 7 figure DACS, and even the DAVE and Niimbus are all very nice equipment, but they are each also relatively expensive--certainly more expensive than the LCD-4 itself, and probably out of reach for many prospective buyers of the LCD-4s. Nothing against such high prices per se (although they surely make me wish I had much deeper pockets than I currently do), but does one necessarily have to drop so much coin in order to bring out the full sonic magic of the LCD-4s... ?

What might one expect from rigs with less expensive components, which meet the specs for the LCD-4's power demands? Consider the following chains, for example :

1. Sonore Ultrarendu (Roon endpoint) ==>> Schiit Yggdrasil (Analog2) ==>> Violectric V281 ==>> LCD-4 . (connected with premium Silvergarde SC interconnects, and a Silvergarde S3 balanced headphone cable from Norne Audio)

or

2. Metrum Acoustics Ambre (Roon Endpoint) ==>> Metrum Acoustics Onyx ==>> Monoprice Cavalli Liquid Platinum ==>> LCD-4 (connected with the same calibre of cables as in 1.)

The components in 1 and 2 above belong to a tier of price points that falls below those of the components mentioned in my opening paragraph, although I have also heard member accounts which report the fairly successful deployment of the LCD-4 in rigs belonging to such tiers. On the other hand, both Chains 1 & 2 have more than enough power to drive the LCD-X, the MX4, the i4, and the 4z. Is there any reason to believe that they cannot drive the LCD-4 equally well, and with optimal results?

I sure hope some here confirm selection number 1 as that is one on my short list. Although those Aries pieces do look sexy as hell. Even in photos they reek of quality. Would love to hear the LCD4 singing with those. I would be willing to bet that the Yggy with the V281 (or GSX Mk2) would be pretty darn nice and robust too. Nothing to look down on at all.

 

[jlbrach]

the 281 is outstanding with anything!

 

[kyle1010]

the 281 is outstanding with anything!

It really is and I don’t even like solid state amps. V281, Wells Audio Headtrip, and Questyle’s gold CMA800R current mode monoblocks are the only solid states that put a smile on my tube guy face

 

[gtbrown50]

Thanks for all the contributions so far, but I am noticing a pattern which has raised a related question :

The Woo Audio WA33, the Aries, 7 figure DACS, and even the DAVE and Niimbus are all very nice equipment, but they are each also relatively expensive--certainly more expensive than the LCD-4 itself, and probably out of reach for many prospective buyers of the LCD-4s. Nothing against such high prices per se (although they surely make me wish I had much deeper pockets than I currently do), but does one necessarily have to drop so much coin in order to bring out the full sonic magic of the LCD-4s... ?

What might one expect from rigs with less expensive components, which meet the specs for the LCD-4's power demands? Consider the following chains, for example :

1. Sonore Ultrarendu (Roon endpoint) ==>> Schiit Yggdrasil (Analog2) ==>> Violectric V281 ==>> LCD-4 . (connected with premium Silvergarde SC interconnects, and a Silvergarde S3 balanced headphone cable from Norne Audio)

or

2. Metrum Acoustics Ambre (Roon Endpoint) ==>> Metrum Acoustics Onyx ==>> Monoprice Cavalli Liquid Platinum ==>> LCD-4 (connected with the same calibre of cables as in 1.)

The components in 1 and 2 above belong to a tier of price points that falls below those of the components mentioned in my opening paragraph, although I have also heard member accounts which report the fairly successful deployment of the LCD-4 in rigs belonging to such lower tiers. On the other hand, both Chains 1 & 2 have more than enough power to drive the LCD-X, the MX4, the i4, and the 4z. Is there any reason to believe that they cannot drive the LCD-4 equally well, and with optimal results?

I'm very pleased with my humble chain....

Roon > Yggy > Loki > THX 789 > LCD-4

 

[MacedonianHero]

Okay, so between the LCD-4, and the LCD-4z, is it settled which of the two sounds better (with all else being equal?) Audeze seem to think that they have the same sound signature, with the only difference being that the z is easier to drive. However, some users do hear differences between the two, with some drawing attention, especially, to the wider soundstage of the LCD-4... However, does the treble sound and behave the same way on both cans?

And here is the most important question, from my point of view: For someone who has amps that are powerful enough to drive the LCD-4, and only wants it for desktop use, and not directly out of any underpowered DAPs, computers, or handheld devices, might there be a compelling reason (e.g. better SQ) to consider the 4z instead?

I am aware that a choice, under such circumstances, would definitely depend on the subjective tastes of the buyer himself... However, I have never had the opportunity to listen to either of the two cans myself (even though I do have the X, the MX4, and the i4). In spite of the importance of subjective preferences, I am trying to find out which of the two cans the majority of owners would prefer under such circumstances, and for what reasons...

So which one to pick, the blue .or red pill? The LCD-4 or the LCD 4z?

Any takers?

They both are amazing headphones and closer to each other than not. But to sum up both headphones (when properly driven...more than say 3W amp into the LCD-4, or almost anything with the 4z due to its high efficiency), the LCD-4s can sound a bit more open and larger. That said, the LCD-4Z has a more overall coherent upper mids/treble with slightly improved detail retrieval...to my ears anyway. Hard to go wrong with either choice (unless of course your amp isn't up to the task do power the LCD-4) as they are both amazing TOTL headphones and among the very best out there. I do slightly prefer the LCD-4Z for the sound signature noted above (and the slightly improved comfort).

 

[mlxx]

The LCD4 doesn't need that much power in my experience, more to do with synergy. In fact, of more than about 10 amplifiers I have tried with the LCD4, the one that sounded best to me (other than the Egoista 845) was one of the least powerful ones of the lot. The closest specs I can find are at 300ohms where the CMA800R is rated at only 180mW, the GSXmk2 for comparison is rated at 1W at 300ohms (the watts will be a bit higher for 200ohms). Using my balanced DAC, volume is between 12 to 1 o'clock so not even close to using max power (single ended it is at 2 o'clock, pot goes to 5 o'clock). I like to listen fairly loud too.