Audeze LCD-4

[thefitz]

Tyll Hertensen’s InnerFidelity moved to Stereophile.com.
The mentioned review and article are again accessible there:

Page1:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/technologically-impressive-lcd-4-planar-magnetic-headphone
Page 2
https://www.stereophile.com/content...essive-lcd-4-planar-magnetic-headphone-page-2
Manufacturers comments:
https://www.stereophile.com/content...nar-magnetic-headphone-manufacturers-comments

A simple search for LCD-4 reveals a lot more there:
https://www.stereophile.com/search/node/LCD-4

This was a very interesting saga, and the developments since have been interesting as well.

There was a lot of talk about the accuracy of Tyll's measurement rig, which at the time was the centre of the universe as far as measurement rigs were concerned. A lot of squeaky wheels said that it wasn't up to snuff, and theirs' were better. Heck, this site has a magic state of the art rig that "correctly measures" away the repeatable measurement quirks present on every other measurement rig on the internet*, especially if it's a sponsored product, but anyway.

However, I heard (and still do hear) the LCD-4 as per Tyll's measurements: flat to 0hz, a noticeable low-Q hump in the 1.5kHz range, an absolute chasm at 4kHz, and a stark ramp-up past 10kHz.

The THD is miniscule, so who cares? Fix it with EQ! The music you are listening to goes through an extensive Digital-to-Analog process off the jump. Is EQ really that much of a deviation? Get out here.

Enter AutoEQ. It takes the measurements from famous rigs and automatically creates EQ settings to match a certain target curve to the best of its ability. And all the rigs are available! We can hear Tyll's measurements, Crin's measurements, Oratory's measurements... oddly the Head-Fi measurements aren't there. Weird, eh? But anyway, what this means is that we can basically hear the difference between measurement rigs. Yes, unit variation, blah blah blah.

Check out the AutoEQ settings from Tyll's rig:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/Innerfidelity/over-ear/Audeze LCD-4

They, uh, they don't sound very good.

 

[KaiSc]

This was a very interesting saga, and the developments since have been interesting as well.

There was a lot of talk about the accuracy of Tyll's measurement rig, which at the time was the centre of the universe as far as measurement rigs were concerned. A lot of squeaky wheels said that it wasn't up to snuff, and theirs' were better. Heck, this site has a magic state of the art rig that "correctly measures" away the repeatable measurement quirks present on every other measurement rig on the internet*, especially if it's a sponsored product, but anyway.

However, I heard (and still do hear) the LCD-4 as per Tyll's measurements: flat to 0hz, a noticeable low-Q hump in the 1.5kHz range, an absolute chasm at 4kHz, and a stark ramp-up past 10kHz.

The THD is miniscule, so who cares? Fix it with EQ! The music you are listening to goes through an extensive Digital-to-Analog process off the jump. Is EQ really that much of a deviation? Get out here.

Enter AutoEQ. It takes the measurements from famous rigs and automatically creates EQ settings to match a certain target curve to the best of its ability. And all the rigs are available! We can hear Tyll's measurements, Crin's measurements, Oratory's measurements... oddly the Head-Fi measurements aren't there. Weird, eh? But anyway, what this means is that we can basically hear the difference between measurement rigs. Yes, unit variation, blah blah blah.

Check out the AutoEQ settings from Tyll's rig:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/Innerfidelity/over-ear/Audeze LCD-4

They, uh, they don't sound very good.

The Oratory and Auto-EQ project’s EQ settings have one thing in common:

They are much too detailed in the range above 2kHz.

The measurements they are based on do use very course targets (“Harman” or “IEF Neutral”).
These targets don’t have such a high resolution.
They are a smoothed average for their specific ear simulator, which by itself uses an averaged version of multiple human beings’ pinnae.

Tryll’s measurements use an average of 5 headphones positions, which further smoothes the result.
But, when listening you do use just one certain position, which does deviate from this average.


Conclusion: you cannot EQ more precise than you measure.
If you try, you just end up with a bunch of strange colorations.


Only below ca. 2 kHz the pinnae and ear canal do not influence the measurement, this range can favorably be used as base for an EQ.

The more above 2 kHz you go, the more you need to individualize your settings.
A measurement and it’s “Auto-EQ” can still show a tendency, e.g. certain resonances.

Furthermore everyone’s ears have a different shape.
This is another reason why the generalized measurement Auto EQ etc. uses does not fit above 2 kHz, where the individual ear shape dominates the frequency response.

The only way for treble EQ:
Find your individuell settings by experimentation, and don’t overdo it:

• Find annoying frequencies and dial them down a bit,
• Find if there is a missing frequency range and bring it up slightly.
• Counter-check if the change really is an improvement, listening to a large variety of your favorite music tracks.

This way you can change great headphones into absolutely superior ones, more effective than by spending a fortune in the quest for the best amp pairing.

 

[thefitz]

For me, AutoEQ's results hits the mark (which are auto-computed off the Oratory1990 measurements). The proper Oratory1990 settings are a little too withdrawn in the upper mids and hot in the upper treble, so the balance between cymbals and drums aren't quite where I prefer them.

As we speak, I am listening to a record through my Lokius and am enjoying a 3:00/12:00/10:30/12:00/4:00/12:00 EQ setting. The mild mid scoop seems to play against the LCD-4's strengths and the result may be a little too treble-heavy over all, but to my ears everything sounds natural.

I guess I prioritize what I detect to be realism over balance.

The AutoEQ curve based off Tyll's multi-seated measurement averages is just odd mush. Drums sound right on the money with the default AutoEQ curve to my ears.

 

[KaiSc]

The AutoEQ curve based off Tyll's multi-seated measurement averages is just odd mush. Drums sound right on the money with the default AutoEQ curve to my ears.

Inner Fidelity’s Tyll Hertensen knew about the shortfalls of his measurements.
They couldn’t be taken ”as is”, but needed interpretation.

Shortly before he retired, he began experimenting with Harman Target, even taking his rig to Harman’s room to gain a reference.
The result never made it into his database, though.

The Auto EQ project uses some global correction to align the results from various sources, but this approach has it’s limitations.


For the LCD-4 I’m happy with an EQ that I derived from Oratory, but cut the treble corrections to ca. 1/2, and did fine-tuning by ear.

Here are 2 versions of EQ that work nicely with various types of music:

Half-way adapted from ORATORY1990 / Harman:

B1: Gain +3.0 dB  F:   111 Hz  Q 0.6 Shelf
B2: Gain -1.0 dB  F:   130 Hz  Q 0.5 Peak
B3: Gain -1.5 dB  F 1.09kHz  Q 0.9 Peak
B4: Gain -1.5 dB  F 3.0 kHz  Q 2.9 Peak
B5: Gain +4.5 dB  F 3.7 kHz  Q 0.6 Peak
B6: Gain -1.0 dB  F 7.8 kHz  Q 2.3 Peak
B7: Gain +1.0 dB  F 7.2 kHz  Q 1.5 Shelf

Smoothed EQ for LCD-4, leaving AUDEZE‘s “house sound” intact:

B1: Gain +6.0 dB  F:   111 Hz  Q 0.6 Shelf
B2: Gain -2.5 dB  F:   130 Hz  Q 0.5 Peak
B3: Gain -1.5 dB  F 1.09kHz  Q 0.9 Peak
B4: Gain +3.0 dB  F 5.7 kHz  Q 0.6 Shelf

 

[thefitz]

Inner Fidelity’s Tyll Hertensen knew about the shortfalls of his measurements.
They couldn’t be taken ”as is”, but needed interpretation.

Shortly before he retired, he began experimenting with Harman Target, even taking his rig to Harman’s room to gain a reference.
The result never made it into his database, though.

The Auto EQ project uses some global correction to align the results from various sources, but this approach has it’s limitations.


For the LCD-4 I’m happy with an EQ that I derived from Oratory, but cut the treble corrections to ca. 1/2, and did fine-tuning by ear.

Here are 2 versions of EQ that work nicely with various types of music:

Half-way adapted from ORATORY1990 / Harman:

B1: Gain +3.0 dB  F:   111 Hz  Q 0.6 Shelf
B2: Gain -1.0 dB  F:   130 Hz  Q 0.5 Peak
B3: Gain -1.5 dB  F 1.09kHz  Q 0.9 Peak
B4: Gain -1.5 dB  F 3.0 kHz  Q 2.9 Peak
B5: Gain +4.5 dB  F 3.7 kHz  Q 0.6 Peak
B6: Gain -1.0 dB  F 7.8 kHz  Q 2.3 Peak
B7: Gain +1.0 dB  F 7.2 kHz  Q 1.5 Shelf

Smoothed EQ for LCD-4, leaving AUDEZE‘s “house sound” intact:

B1: Gain +6.0 dB  F:   111 Hz  Q 0.6 Shelf
B2: Gain -2.5 dB  F:   130 Hz  Q 0.5 Peak
B3: Gain -1.5 dB  F 1.09kHz  Q 0.9 Peak
B4: Gain +3.0 dB  F 5.7 kHz  Q 0.6 Shelf

I am digging your EQ! I may try the "house sound" one as well, but your main one is great, and very natural sounding.

What amazes me is how imaging totally changes as you flip between EQ profiles. It's so wild.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Am I the only one who just puts a bass bump at 32hz & 100hz and leaves everything else?

 

[ansel1]

Am I the only one who just puts a bass bump at 32hz & 100hz and leaves everything else?

Maybe my ears have just gotten used to it, but I really miss the 1K dip and 4-5K boost now. It's like food without salt.

 

[Lokust]

Am too lazy, merely use the Reveal plugin. Love the LCD-4, one of the best hps I've ever listened to... but whenever I switch from the Raal SR1a to the LCD-4, I'm disappointed. The Raal is that good. Luckily, my addled brain forgets about the Raal after about the 3rd song and I'm back to euphoria.

 

[Fibre101]

Inner Fidelity’s Tyll Hertensen knew about the shortfalls of his measurements.
They couldn’t be taken ”as is”, but needed interpretation.

Shortly before he retired, he began experimenting with Harman Target, even taking his rig to Harman’s room to gain a reference.
The result never made it into his database, though.

The Auto EQ project uses some global correction to align the results from various sources, but this approach has it’s limitations.


For the LCD-4 I’m happy with an EQ that I derived from Oratory, but cut the treble corrections to ca. 1/2, and did fine-tuning by ear.

Here are 2 versions of EQ that work nicely with various types of music:

Half-way adapted from ORATORY1990 / Harman:

B1: Gain +3.0 dB  F:   111 Hz  Q 0.6 Shelf
B2: Gain -1.0 dB  F:   130 Hz  Q 0.5 Peak
B3: Gain -1.5 dB  F 1.09kHz  Q 0.9 Peak
B4: Gain -1.5 dB  F 3.0 kHz  Q 2.9 Peak
B5: Gain +4.5 dB  F 3.7 kHz  Q 0.6 Peak
B6: Gain -1.0 dB  F 7.8 kHz  Q 2.3 Peak
B7: Gain +1.0 dB  F 7.2 kHz  Q 1.5 Shelf

Smoothed EQ for LCD-4, leaving AUDEZE‘s “house sound” intact:

B1: Gain +6.0 dB  F:   111 Hz  Q 0.6 Shelf
B2: Gain -2.5 dB  F:   130 Hz  Q 0.5 Peak
B3: Gain -1.5 dB  F 1.09kHz  Q 0.9 Peak
B4: Gain +3.0 dB  F 5.7 kHz  Q 0.6 Shelf

If I wanted more treble, what frequency should I add db without degrading all other frequencies or in other words compensate for them.

 

[thefitz]

If I wanted more treble, what frequency should I add db without degrading all other frequencies or in other words compensate for them.

I'd start by playing around with band 7, which is a shelf. Then, band 5 is the infamous trough in the treble that you may want to fill out.

 

[KaiSc]

If I wanted more treble, what frequency should I add db without degrading all other frequencies or in other words compensate for them.

If it‘s more about the vocals and instruments that should be brighter, it‘s the 5 kHz range, a broad (Q=0.5) peaking filter.
For drums and cymbals it’s 7,5 and above, means a 5 kHz (really) shelf filter.
For general more shine a bit of both.

Not much needed anyway here, max. 4 dB in total.
Too much and the bass will suffer, subjectively.

You could even try the ones from above without the bass and midrange correction:
B4-7 from No. 1, or B4 from No. 2.
Band 3 of both cares for the midrange “honk” that might or might not annoy.

Hope that helps!

 

[Audio-Phile]

Does anyone know if Audeze will refurb the wood cups themselves? The finish on mine is marred in some places, just years of moving and use, no matter how careful, seems to have taken a toll. Also, for some reason, my ear pads are completely falling apart, shocked that the leather is of such poor quality but here we are.

I reached out to them many years ago about this but seeing as the company has changed so much since then, wondering if anyone has had anything like that done recently.

 

[LetTheKidsTechno]

Does anyone know if Audeze will refurb the wood cups themselves? The finish on mine is marred in some places, just years of moving and use, no matter how careful, seems to have taken a toll. Also, for some reason, my ear pads are completely falling apart, shocked that the leather is of such poor quality but here we are.

I reached out to them many years ago about this but seeing as the company has changed so much since then, wondering if anyone has had anything like that done recently.

Yes they will.. Won't be macassar ebony most likely but they'll give you options (Zebrano wood, Rosewood, etc). Just have em replace the pads while you're at it. Their support is there to help.

 

[Audeze]

Does anyone know if Audeze will refurb the wood cups themselves? The finish on mine is marred in some places, just years of moving and use, no matter how careful, seems to have taken a toll. Also, for some reason, my ear pads are completely falling apart, shocked that the leather is of such poor quality but here we are.

I reached out to them many years ago about this but seeing as the company has changed so much since then, wondering if anyone has had anything like that done recently.

Contact us at support@audeze.com. We don't 'fix' your existing rings, but may be able to replace them. With ring replacements, new pads are factored into the service as they must also be replaced at time of ring replacement.

 

[Kozwoz]

Wondering if anyone else feels the new pads have reduced bass energy on their LCD4?

I just installed them on my pair today. Bass feels a bit tighter but no longer has the same thunderous slam. Feels the same way on my 4z with the new pads. Maybe as a result of the ear being closer to the driver so bass doesn’t resonate the same way.

Would like to hear others impressions of the bass when it comes to the new pads. Otherwise very happy with the positive changes to the mids and treble but the bass i’m really split on.