Attack of the Killer Wooden Headphones
Jul 19, 2001 at 6:57 AM Post #16 of 39
I was going to bring that up myself solomon, but I guess it's easier to keep plastic from resonating with headphones than with speakers, especially if it's thick. Still, that doesn't explain why wood doesn't work all that well...

(and I just know vert's going to attack us on this
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Jul 19, 2001 at 7:58 AM Post #18 of 39
I thinks Sony MDR-R10 is the most organic headphones that ever built.
Earcups : Wood
Earpads and headrest : lamb skin
Cables coating : Silk
Driver : Biocelullose

Sound ... yes ... like it's material, it is very-very natural ... isn't it Vertigo-1?
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 8:10 AM Post #19 of 39
KR...: I use Headroom Maxed Out Home. My headphones ... I sold more headphones than I currently have. I always aspire headphones that I have not heard. Now I am looking for Ergo headphones ...
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 6:02 PM Post #21 of 39
I own a Audio Technica ATH-A5 that is a closed design made from plastics, and I have compared it to a wooden and pricey ATH-W10 VTG once. The ATH-A5 is still one of my favourite headphones. I prefer it to the Senn HD 580/600 or the AKG K 501, because it has a better sensitivity, dynamic range and a warmer tonal balance. But listening to the expensive wooden ATH-W10 VTG was a bizarre experience. It sounded very bright, thin and uninviting, especially with violins. At the same time, it had less focused soundstage than the ATH-A5. I could not make head or tail of this sound.

But regarding this wood vs. plastics discussion: Maybe we should not only consider the amount of resonances but their specific quality. A material might have less resonances but its "timbre" could very well be of a more obtrusive nature. How many instruments are there that are made from plastics? Additionally, there are even speaker designs that specifically utilize resonances - they have "tuned" enclosures that are designed to aid the drivers at lower frequencies, some of those speakers don't use any damping whatsoever. The idea is to mimic the behaviour of musical instruments. I wouldn't give up hope for wooden headphones just yet.
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 6:36 PM Post #22 of 39
Oh, what a horrid comparison Tomcat (between musical instruments and headphones/speakers). Musical instruments are SUPPOSED to resonate! It's what the wooden body of such instruments as piano, guitar, violin, viola, acoustic bass, etc is for. Resonances in the wood amplify, and give "body" to the tiny resonances of the strings...producing a "tone" (or timbre) unique to that particular instrument.

This is exactly what headphones and speakers are NOT supposed to do! They're not supposed to "create" sound, adding "warmth and richness" of their own. They're supposed to, as neutrally as possible, REproduce the sound that's already on the recording. Anything they add (or subtract) is, by definition, DISTORTION! This is why it's so important to minimize resonance! Resonance of the earcups/headphone frame distorts the "real" sound...that being REproduced by the diaphram!

Wood is QUITE resonant. This is why our (wooden) speaker cabinets are full of sound absorbing material, and on the better models braces bolted to inside cabinet walls...to dampen these resonances. Ideally speaker cabinets should be made of a very NON-resonant material. Concrete springs to mind. No, I'm not kidding. There HAVE been commercially produced speakers made of concrete in the past. It may not be practical (EXTREMELY heavy) for most users, but for those who truly want to hear what's on the recording, it's not as dumb an idea as you might expect.

I believe that various plastics might well make speaker cabinets which are ACOUSTICALLY better than wood. I also believe there would be a built-in bias against this type of construction from many "audiophiles" to whom audio purchases are a "status" symbol. Who would like to boast to their non-audiophile friends that their speakers were made of "genuine plastic!"
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 6:56 PM Post #23 of 39
I am going to have to agree with mike walker on this one. No tbecause I agree inherently with what he is saying but because the HD600's are simply better than those piece of **** audio technicas.
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 7:27 PM Post #24 of 39
Darn, now I am surrounded.

This idea about musical instruments wasn't my own, of course. I am not known for having too many original ideas. There is a store in Frankfurt catering to the needs of those obscure vinyl and valve lovers: "Auditorium 23". They are manufacturing several full range single driver speakers, and their newest one is called "Rondo" and its working principle is pretty much how I have described. Here is the link to their German site.

This "Rondo" speaker got rather favourable reviews in a number of HighEnd magazines: "La Nouvelle Revue du Son" in France and "Image Hifi" in Germany. I have heard it once (at the "HighEnd" exhibit in Germany) and wasn't impressed. I would have liked better sensitivity, better dynamic range and better bass.

But: Audio Note UK still swears by their modified Snell speaker designs. Peter Qvortrup's explanations:
"At Audio Note we design our loudspeakers to imitate real musical instruments. Every aspect of cabinet, drivers and crossover are carefully matched in much the same manner that a violin maker crafts a fine musical instrument. (...) The AN-E is a two-way, ported enclosure, with a carefully designed cabinet which is shaped to enhance and aid driver dispersion on one hand, and bass output on the other. The cabinet is lightly braced and little internal damping is used. The cabinet is designed in such a way that it augments and supports the drivers in their task, not unlike the box of a guitar."

I have listened to complete Audio Note systems on several occasions, and rest assured, every time it was an absolute sonic feast. Those systems have an uncanny ability to disappear behind the music (and to drive one into bankruptcy). Maybe this is not primarily due to the speakers, but they certainly didn't seem to introduce any obvious flaws either.
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 7:32 PM Post #25 of 39
aiOtron,
I almost forgot to ask: Do you know those piece of **** Audio Technicas? Do you know the A5 or any of their wooden headphones? Now, you better can say you do.
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 7:57 PM Post #26 of 39
good call tomcat, I was going to ask ai0tron the same question. if you haven't listened to a headphone, you definitely can not call them a piece of ****.
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 8:19 PM Post #27 of 39
Quote:

I am going to have to agree with mike walker on this one. No tbecause I agree inherently with what he is saying but because the HD600's are simply better than those piece of **** audio technicas.


Really?

Can you post a review on just what about them you didn't like? Also how they compare to the HD-600 in a point by point review?
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 8:43 PM Post #28 of 39
""At Audio Note we design our loudspeakers to imitate real musical instruments" this from Tomcat's own post. To "imitate real musical instruments", not to BECOME a musical instrument! A headphone, or speaker "imitates real musical instruments" by reproducing what's on the recording, not by resonating and adding it's own editorial comment!

"To imitate real musical instruments" is an excellent description of a device which adds no coloration of it's own! It "immitates the real musical instruments" on the recording! That IS what headphones and speakers do, after all...attempt to simulate, as precisely as possible, the waveforms produced by musical instruments at the recording venue! DUH!

Resonances in cabinets ALWAYS detract from "imitating real musical instruments"!
 
Jul 19, 2001 at 9:12 PM Post #29 of 39
Mike,
Actually I am a little tired myself (different time zones, you know). So this is my last response for today. Let us read just one more time what Peter Qvortrup has written there: "The cabinet is lightly braced and little internal damping is used. The cabinet is designed in such a way that it augments and supports the drivers in their task, not unlike the box of a guitar."
Mike, if he isn't comparing his speaker enclosure to the sound box of a guitar, my English must be even worse than I thought.
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Okay, more bloodshed tomorrow. I wonder why KR... has named this thread the way he has?
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