[Snooker]

Hi all,
 
Have enjoyed my X3 for months now, and I am actually quite happy with the soundquality. However, one must keep looking for improvement... so I was wondering: would it make sense to hook up an E12 to it? Would there be a noticable difference in soundquality and/or dynamic range if I did? Would it be a sensible investment? Using Technics RP-DH1200 headphones at home, and Sennheiser PX 200-II when on the road.

 

[bellor]

Quoted answer from one engineer not welcome around these parts:
"If a given pair of headphones will not play loud enough, or has obvious problems with a given source, then a headphone amplifier or DAC may help. But these devices can also create their own problems. And if a given source already has a low output impedance and enough output power, than adding an amplifier can often make things worse, instead of better."

 

[nmatheis]

I really enjoy my E12 DIY with my X3 and X5!

 

[headdict]

Hi all,

Have enjoyed my X3 for months now, and I am actually quite happy with the soundquality. However, one must keep looking for improvement... so I was wondering: would it make sense to hook up an E12 to it? Would there be a noticable difference in soundquality and/or dynamic range if I did? Would it be a sensible investment? Using Technics RP-DH1200 headphones at home, and Sennheiser PX 200-II when on the road.

If you're after sound quality, invest in better headphones. E12 won't give you any improvement in this respect, unless you are using phones that X3 cannot properly drive. Since X3 is already rather powerful as an amp, this is not going to happen with portable phones.

 

[nmatheis]

But an E12 in the audio chain will alter the sound signature, which the OP might prefer. It's not always about loudness.

 

[bellor]

But an E12 in the audio chain will alter the sound signature, which the OP might prefer. It's not always about loudness.

My preference and, I am sure, the musician's preference, would be that the audio chain be as transparent and unaltering as possible. Since when I listen to Pink Floyd, I would very much like to get Pink Floyd, not Pink Floyd a la "Bad amplifier".

 

[headdict]

But an E12 in the audio chain will alter the sound signature, which the OP might prefer. It's not always about loudness.

I didn't notice any sound alteration using X3 with FW 3.0.

 

[nmatheis]

My preference and, I am sure, the musician's preference, would be that the audio chain be as transparent and unaltering as possible. Since when I listen to Pink Floyd, I would very much like to get Pink Floyd, not Pink Floyd a la "Bad amplifier".

To each their own. I wouldn't call E12 a "bad amplifier". I also wouldn't say that LO to E12 is less transparent. I'd go so far as to say there's really no way to avoid sound coloration, since you're making a conscious choice about what HP/IEM to use based on how they make your music sound.

I didn't notice any sound alteration using X3 with FW 3.0.

To make sure I understand you properly, you don't hear a difference with E3 HO vs. E3 LO -> E12 with FW 3.0? I haven't tried with 3.0, but I could certainly tell a difference with my HP/IEM with earlier FW.

 

[Snooker]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts on this subject. For now I have upgraded my portable headphones to a Beyerdynamic T51p, which sounds great (first impression). I won't be looking into an E12 for now, but might give it a testdrive when I can get my paws on it in a store or from a friend.

 

[bellor]

To each their own. I wouldn't call E12 a "bad amplifier". I also wouldn't say that LO to E12 is less transparent. I'd go so far as to say there's really no way to avoid sound coloration, since you're making a conscious choice about what HP/IEM to use based on how they make your music sound.
To make sure I understand you properly, you don't hear a difference with E3 HO vs. E3 LO -> E12 with FW 3.0? I haven't tried with 3.0, but I could certainly tell a difference with my HP/IEM with earlier FW.

I was not calling the E12 a bad amplifier. It is quite decent actually. Just as good as the X3, in my opinion. I do not own it, but I have a friend who does and I like it.
But , and this is not for sure, just not impossible, using a capable amplifier to amp the output of a capable amplifier can be very bad for the sound.
My comment about transparency was referring to everything up to the speakers, be it HPs, IEMs or real speakers.
Obviously I get it that the transducer cannot be perfect and you get that to suit your taste, but the signal path from source up to the amp output should be as transparent as possible. The amp design engineer's viewpoint on the music you listen to should have no importance or effect on your music. Ever.

 

[headdict]

To each their own. I wouldn't call E12 a "bad amplifier". I also wouldn't say that LO to E12 is less transparent. I'd go so far as to say there's really no way to avoid sound coloration, since you're making a conscious choice about what HP/IEM to use based on how they make your music sound.
To make sure I understand you properly, you don't hear a difference with E3 HO vs. E3 LO -> E12 with FW 3.0? I haven't tried with 3.0, but I could certainly tell a difference with my HP/IEM with earlier FW.

Yes, you understood perfectly well. I fully agree that X3 with FW versions up to 2.1 sounded quite differently, much less transparent. IMO an external amp was a must prior to FW 3.0. I actually used an E12 back then.

 

[nmatheis]

Yes, you understood perfectly well. I fully agree that X3 with FW versions up to 2.1 sounded quite differently, much less transparent. IMO an external amp was a must prior to FW 3.0. I actually used an E12 back then.

I'll have to give a listen. I purchased the X5 and have been listening to that coupled to an E12 DIY for awhile. I remember requiring the E12 with X3 for increased clarity and soundstage until 2.14beta was released. That was the first X3 firmware I felt could keep up with my E12 but felt later firmware versions didn't match 2.14beta. Do you feel 3.0 matches 2.14beta sound quality wise?

 

[nmatheis]

bellor: I'm not talking about double amping. I'm talking about bypassing the X3's internal amp by using LO -> External Amp. Depending on the amp, you can definitely get increased clarity, soundstage, attack, decay, etc. I'm not trying to start an argument with you, but I don't want the OP to be scared off from experimenting and finding the sound they enjoy most.

 

[headdict]

I'll have to give a listen. I purchased the X5 and have been listening to that coupled to an E12 DIY for awhile. I remember requiring the E12 with X3 for increased clarity and soundstage until 2.14beta was released. That was the first X3 firmware I felt could keep up with my E12 but felt later firmware versions didn't match 2.14beta. Do you feel 3.0 matches 2.14beta sound quality wise?

I have no idea, since I never tried the beta.

 

[nmatheis]

It was the best X3 FW yet...