[notthere]

Hi,
 
I'm posting this thread here because I only listen to music on the computer, so it may be a somewhat different matter on other hardware.
 
Although I suppose it is more dictated by the music one enjoys rather than the hardware one plays it back on.
And to illustrate that, here's the last.fm tag cloud of genres I enjoy:

 
So... I naturally don't have the choice that lovers of classical music or jazz apparently have.
And while contemplating whether to get better headphones or a headphone amp (current setup is: DT770 Pro + Soundblaster X-Fi PCIe), I listened to quite a few mostly FLAC and 320kbit mp3s. And with this setup alone, I already heard so many things wrong with the audio files that I in fact got a little sick from it (sick not as in vomiting but I REALLY desperately wanted to just listen to something without noise or distortion). I couldn't help but wonder "so what could even improve if I buy this or that?". Because I DID indeed find some files that sounded virtually noise and distortion free to me.
What I would really want would not for that little noise/distortion that is left to disappear but for the other 90% of files I have to possess just the same quality. Because that would be the much bigger difference. However, I don't think that's possible short of sending awesome equipment and capable technicians to the bands I enjoy?
 
And I wonder whether better equipment (for me, not the musicians ) may not make the issues even worse, by making them more audible. At least I know I didn't pick up a lot of that stuff with my AKG K141... and sure as hell not with the some-noname-30-bucks-things, before I got introduced to the awesomeness of higher quality headphones.

 

[ChipnDalebowl]

The diminishing returns really depend on how well you can hear. Some people can hear the difference between a couple hundred dollar setup and a couple of thousand of dollars of a setup....some can't, and some see the difference as so minimal its not worth the extra cost.

Look at your budget--what are you willing to spend and what can you realistically afford to spend? You can get lots of good stuff for less than $250. I know its not a black-and-white answer to your question, but there isn't one. Everyone hears things differently. I make people run when they hear what I play my music on, but it flat out works for me and my crummy hearing.

 

[CantScareMe]

In ambient, instrumental and acoustic there are plenty of examples of great, noise and distortion free music. Scratch that, I haven't come across much examples of badly recorded music period in them genres. It must be your setup that has something wrong with it. I'm not sure on the capabilities of your soundcard, but is it a good match for the dt770pro 80. By the way, the dt770 pro is amongst the very very few headphones that I intensely hate. I would not recommend it to anyone for anything, as in my opinion it's quite a poor headphone (the 80 ohm version at least). 

 

[obobskivich]

Bad recordings are usually compounded by very revealing or accurate playback equipment - but not always. If you have some so-so quality files or albums (and if that's the best quality you can get the material in (e.g. the CD is just poorly done)), you won't improve that dramatically with better gear. But there are some things you can do to help; for example get a very forgiving pair of headphones or speakers. Generally that means a dark presentation, like the HD 580 or ESW9. A new headphone amplifier probably won't improve that though (unless your 770s are just improperly handled by the X-Fi; which X-Fi do you have?).

 

[notthere]

My 770s are 250 Ohm by the way and my X-Fi is the Xtreme Audio PCI Express.
 
I just looked up some FLAC samples, so I can actually compare with you guys (I thank our corporate states for no fair use of music I bought whatsoever... 10 second clips would have been sufficient but no... that would destroy all of their profits...)
 
So now the moment of truth... I listened to the following pieces:
 
http://www.lindberg.no/hires/test/HD7041888514725_01_01.flac
(humming in the bass mostly on the left side. well audible in the first 30 seconds)
 
http://www.lindberg.no/hires/test/2L48SACD_14_stereo_96k.flac
(low to medium frequ. noise very audible in the first two seconds. and maybe it's from the piano but there's a "woosh-woosh" sound every couple of seconds, )
 
http://www.lindberg.no/hires/test/2L-077-stereo-96kHz_21.flac
(the high-pitched noise in this is is just ridiculous... although I suppose it may be caused by an instrument?)
 
http://www.lindberg.no/hires/test/2L-064_stereo96kHz_01_08.flac
Because the noise in this last one sounded less to me than in other files (though still audible), I opened it with Audacity and plotted the spectrum of the first couple of seconds. And it showed me that I'm not crazy!
 

 
 
@ CantScareMe
 
Well... I love my 770s (again - 250 ohm)
I was actually looking for an alternative but... headphones with both either linear or slightly overpowered bass/heights, strong isolation and velour ear pads (i use them ~10h/day...) and costing max. of 300€ are hard to find. As far as I found, the next-"cheapest", possibly acceptable alternative would be the HD800...

 

[paaj]

really depends on the sound signature of the more expensive stuff. A 'warmer' headphone like an HD650 or Stax SR404LE doesn't really accentuate the bad stuff and can still be used with all music, but a more unforgiving model like Q701 or Stax 4070 does destroy your badly recorded music. 

 

[notthere]

650 is above my price range. Stax SR404LE - are these even sold anywhere?
 
Which reminds me... ESW9 - I should mention that I currently live in Germany. And even across all of Europe, these appear to be rare. And I will never again buy a headphone without trying first.
HD 580 seems like it might actually suit my needs but since I can only get it second hand and from far away - there's no way in hell I'll take that risk unless I would get it for like 10 bucks or so.

 

[obobskivich]

650 is above my price range. Stax SR404LE - are these even sold anywhere?

Which reminds me... ESW9 - I should mention that I currently live in Germany. And even across all of Europe, these appear to be rare. And I will never again buy a headphone without trying first.
HD 580 seems like it might actually suit my needs but since I can only get it second hand and from far away - there's no way in hell I'll take that risk unless I would get it for like 10 bucks or so.

404, no. 407, yes. They're ~$600 in the US.

Regarding the others - HD 580 is the same thing as HD 600 (more or less), $10 is insultingly lowballed for that to a seller. So I'd probably just pass if used headphones aren't your bag.

I think ESW9 or HD 600 would probably be good candidates for you, ESW9 is easier to drive. Don't you have Amazon or some other place with a return policy? (I know you can order from Meier audio, but I don't know what all he can sell you).

 

[notthere]

More importantly than the headphone debate that has developed now (because this is really about the very basics): Since nobody has said anything about it, I can only assume I am right about the issues with the recordings and it's not the fault of my hardware?
 
 
@ obobskivich
 
Well of course I wouldn't offer $10 to anybody. I'm just saying... that's how hesitant I am to buying headphones blindly.
 
Yes, there is a German Amazon. And in fact, ALL online shops here have to give you a refund within two weeks after delivery but... I once happened to run into one (a small one) that refused to do so until I took legal action. And not all things sold by Amazon are really sold by Amazon itself.
Then there's the issue of transport costs that won't be refunded.
But... there's nothing to try anyway. I wanted to say that I'll look into the HD 600 but then I noticed that they're not closed. I realize I mentioned the HD 800 above but... that was a mistake on my part. I thought those are closed. Same goes for ESW9 (even if I could get them around here) - they're closed but the isolation graph looks quite ridiculous compared to the DT770s...
 
[edit]I just read that one can put Shure SRH840 velour pats onto the M50. So I guess there would be an option... Although at least in the photos, they look just as "fragile" (lots of plastic) as the new DT770 model. Which is the reason why I don't want to get that one. I love my ~5 year old, sturdy DT770s. So I could just as well go with the new DT770s again. Unless the M50 sound better? Although I doubt that based on the reviews I've read.[/edit]

 

[paaj]

Quote:

650 is above my price range. Stax SR404LE - are these even sold anywhere?
 

 
was meant more as an example in answer to your topic title. Cost doesn't really matter in a negative way IMO, but there are quite a few headphones/setups that will ruin lots of your songs.
 
I'd skip a new version of the DT770 you already have, wouldn't make much sense to buy the 'same' one again if this one is still working? I agree that the ESW9 (well, ESW10 here) doesn't isolate that well, but it is good enough for my daily bicycling/train travels and I don't think I listen loud (30/40%@iPod). May be a good option if you want something different that is portable and a bit more forgiving. They do have a bit of a problem in the metro or bus (engine-side).
 
 
Used is the way to go by the way, especially if you can't audition first. Just go by feedback, photo's and common sense. My experience here on the Head-Fi market is very positive and if it doesn't work out soundwise there is much less loss than selling your headphones after the two weeks 'try-out' period.

 

[notthere]

Well my DT770s are working but they are starting to fall apart. Quite literally. Parts broken off, torn and ripped. Which is exactly why I am so hesitant about getting the newer, less robust looking model. And no, it's not because I want to be able to abuse them. I simply carry them in my backpack from/to work every single day. And for instance, the pieces broken off are on the rims of both housings - at the same points... where the small "stoppers" put a lot of pressure onto the rims. And the socket where the cable connects being torn is IMO just wear and tear - but that is why I would really prefer a detachable cable.
 
Although I may just hang on with them until they ACTUALLY fall apart or stop working. As I usually do that with things I really like
And instead for now get myself some sort of dac/amp-thing so I can get rid of that X-Fi that seems to make my system unstable AND get better performance out of my Galaxy S.
 
"May be a good option if you want something different that is portable"
I don't use my headphones on the go. But I work in an open space office filled with about 40 people and just as many computers - as you may imagine, that causes quite a bit of noise.
 
"if it doesn't work out soundwise there is much less loss than selling your headphones after the two weeks 'try-out' period."
That's true I suppose. I'll keep it in mind
 
I HAVE by the way found something that MAY be an acceptable alternative for me: M50 with Shure SRH840 velour pads. But again - unless I find a cheap used pair, I think I'll go with the other equipment until my DT770s disintegrate

 

[proton007]

Personally, I've felt things change a lot from 20 -> 100 -> 200 -> 400 dollars, but its negative exponential, i.e. the perceived difference reduces. Beyond 200, they're all good at details, and the difference is in signatures, at what they reveal and what they hold back, so its a matter of choice, no longer about any benefits.
 
I just feel I should have a clean source, a clean amp with adequate power, and let the headphones do the magic.