[Him]

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=5135
Read, analyze, etc.

 

[GameBlaster]

As expected from Asus Xonar D2 despite of professional DAC and opamp combined with C-media processor, how is it possible for the first debut card to beat 5 years of development Xtreme fidelity processor ? still this card can't beat X-Fi's SSRC, I don't know whether the tests were using bit-perfect playback, whatever the test, it still lacks the games audio enhancement (EAX HD).

My point of view is that the real high definition audio gear will be coming soon from Auzen. X-Fi Prelude 7.1 which everybody waiting for it.

 

[cotdt]

the weakness is the board layout. the DAC chip and opamps have much better theoretical performance, but as a whole the card didn't measure as well as the others. but it doesn't matter really, RMAA results are utterly worthless and has absolutely no correlation with human hearing. evaluations must be based on subjective impressions sort of like the reviews we have on head-fi.

all the current and upcoming sound cards slew. the bass is poorly defined and the sound is rounded. the problem is the low slew rate of the opamp in the output stage. even the 20 V/us of the better opamps like LM4562 is way too low for those frequencies.

sound card makers (and DAC makers in general) should look at the OPUS DAC. it uses the wolfson DAC and does not use an opamp-based output stage, dramatically improving sound quality and reducing costs. alternatively, if the engineers were creative they could use a current-feedback opamp as part of the output stage.

 

[Ahriman4891]

Quote:

RMAA results are utterly worthless and has absolutely no correlation with human hearing. evaluations must be based on subjective impressions sort of like the reviews we have on head-fi.

Of what use are your subjective impressions to me, given that "everybody's ears are different?"

RMAA will not tell you how something sounds, but will point out when something is clearly wrong. In case of ASUS, looks like there is a brickwall-type filter that cuts off everything above 20 KHz, which is easy to see on the graph. Hence, there are better cards for using with e.g. DVD-A -- however, I am willing to bet 99.9% of people would not realize it during a listening test.

 

[cotdt]

sure RMAA has their uses... to the engineer. how is it useful to consumers who want something that sounds good? i'm not sure what you mean by "everybody's ears are different"... people have different preferences but the variation in ears is not that huge. if somebody says that DAC "A" has more bass than DAC "B" then chances are I'll hear the same thing. nobody is going to tell the difference between .003% harmonic distortion and .000003%, though. heck i have yet to find a person who can tell the difference between 3% harmonic distortion and 0.1% in a blind ABX test.

Measurements are useful and do indeed tell the whole story, but not RMAA measurements. They need to measure things like the transient intermodulation distortion. This measurement has a very strong correlation with subjective sound quality.

 

[KT88]

As I've posted previously, I have the ASUS at home for a review for a hardware site in Israel (HWzone.co.il). I've made a few tests including FPS, and RMAA. The ASUS has a bit of a problem when testing with RMAA. It only works well with the DirectSound. When using MME the 24bit results are the same as the 16bit. However, the potential of the card is very high, and the results when using the direct sound driver are as good as the X-Fi Elite Pro, and maybe even a bit better. I do agree however with what has been said here about the board layout. Its is indeed not the best.

I've saved the result files in the following link so you'll be able to see them. The files are the RMAA sav files so you'll need the program to produce the results. I've saved it like this so you'll be able to use it for generating a report in comparison to any sound card you might have. I have compared it to the results of the Emu 1212M and the X-Fi XtremeMusic I used to own.
http://www.mediafire.com/?2owzyi9gmli

BTW, if you have any results you can send me in a .sav files for comparison, that'll be great

In terms of sound (which is the only real thing that matter, really), I'll be testing in the next few days with the 1212M side-by-side, I'll be able to post in a few days. I'll be testing it with both my speakers (Upgraded Encore 705 - Morel USA) and headphones (K1000). The X-fi had a sound I didn't like even thought it had a relatively good detail and sounded much better than the Audigy's used to sound.
BTW, I've had the Razer AC-1 in review (still have it for now fo some more tests) it sounds very nice and with character, very much like a tube amp with great mid and nice mellow bass and treble. However, the resolution and bass power is somewhat lacking IMO.

Edit:
I've replaced the download link to a one easier to use.

 

[KT88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahriman4891 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of what use are your subjective impressions to me, given that "everybody's ears are different?" RMAA will not tell you how something sounds, but will point out when something is clearly wrong. In case of ASUS, looks like there is a brickwall-type filter that cuts off everything above 20 KHz, which is easy to see on the graph. Hence, there are better cards for using with e.g. DVD-A -- however, I am willing to bet 99.9% of people would not realize it during a listening test.

The 20KHz limit is due to the fact there was a problem with the test.
1 - maybe the RMAA is set to check only 20-20 (as I do in some cases)
2 - The ASUS driver has a place to select the sample rate of the card. If you use it in 44.1KHz the 22.05KHz is the limit.

 

[Ahriman4891]

Quote:

2 - The ASUS driver has a place to select the sample rate of the card. If you use it in 44.1KHz the 22.05KHz is the limit.

I know

Quote:

1 - maybe the RMAA is set to check only 20-20 (as I do in some cases)

Well, seeing that it's on EVERY graph, either they specifically set RMAA in 20-20 just for ASUS, or there is a driver problem (or some RMAA glitch) at the moment. Curiously, it seems to handle 48 KHz fine--it's just 96 and 192. Immature drivers is my guess.

 

[KT88]

It does seem to have problem with 96 and 192 when testing with RMAA, however, with some luck I was able to get the result of the 96. I didn't upload it as I only succeeded in doing so after uploading the file, however, I do have it in the computer if you want to, I can email you the files.

BTW, the 20-20 is a very useful option. I'm not sure it was only set that way for ASUS. I know many people limit it because the rest is just of no use if you cant hear it

Anyway, it is able to produce these freq's. And, as I said the results on VR-zone are not the real results, as it is possible to get real 24bit reading using DS. I have a PDF of results ASUS posted on the web which shows a DR of about 116db, however, its obvious it isn't real as I have only managed to produce about 108db using the Xonar card.

BTW, I had a similar problem with the Razer Barracuda AC-1 which didn't go away when using the DS, I'll try again tomorrow, I'll let you know if there is any change.

BTW2, OPA's

ASUS uses 2 different types of these on the Xonar. The front channels have the L4562MA which is very nice. I really hope the sound of the card will be as good as these components allow. The rest of the channels have the R45801 which I was unable to find on google.

 

[ROBSCIX]

The 4580 are generic opamps...They are used on a few cards not much good in my opinion. Not when compared to some of the others.

 

[KT88]

That's what I thought. Any idea where I can find some more info?

I really liked the fact they placed a L4562 on the front channels. A shame they didnt go all the way and used 4 of these, and maybe ever use a socket for the front 2 channels like the perlude will be.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Here is the spec sheet.
S4580

These are commonly used opamps.
Hope that helps.

 

[KT88]

BTW, I did the same tests on the Razer AC-1 (a very stable driver, no 96KHz problems

).

BTW, I did a sound test for the Xonar, info here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...01#post3168201