[Sulbh]

Do make sure that you are actually triggering the high impedance mode of the LG when you connect the PA10. This will give 2vrms to PA10.
Input voltage do matter. Out of curiosity, I have fed non-american apple usb-c to 3.5mm dac to PA10 and it was pretty weak, even in high gain of PA10.

Yes I think this might be a factor as well though the whole reason to get an amplifier is to amplify the weak signal. If you have to feed a high powered signal of over 2V this defeats the whole purpose of an amplifier doesn't it?

 

[BS5711]

What source are you using with PA10?

In my case one of a couple of DAPs via the 4.4mm.

The DAPs I use have a dedicated line out from either the 3.5mm single ended or 4.4mm balanced which output 2 volts and 4 volts respectively.

I have tried the PA10 with a source that has a substantially lower voltage and the PA10 performance suffers badly.

That isn't a fault of the device, that is just how amplifiers work. They have to have some design input voltage that the circuitry is designed to use as starting point. The PA10 is designed to pair with a DAP which generally will output 2 volts and 4 volts and mentioned.

Out of curiosity and in an effort to help you track down the cause of your problem I connected my Shanling M3 Ultra DAP to the PA10 from the 3.5mm and listened to my DT1770 Pro 250 ohm headphones off both. The outright volume wasn't a lot different but it was quite apparent that the DAP was struggling past about 65/100 on the volume with rather rough distorted sound while the PA10 only sounded marginally distorted at very close to maximum volume. To compare I then connected the DT1770 to my iFi Diablo via the 1/4 inch because the DT1770 are not balanced and frankly while it was louder it wasn't a whole other world versus the PA10.

I suspect that you are not inputting the right voltage or are relating outright volume capability with economic value and audio performance. I set the volume on the PA10 at 6 o'clock with the indicator dot right at the bottom and it is a loud normal/sustainable listening volume to me and the DT1770 sounded as good as they sound on anything else that I have and have ever heard them on.

 

[BS5711]

Yes I think this might be a factor as well though the whole reason to get an amplifier is to amplify the weak signal. If you have to feed a high powered signal of over 2V this defeats the whole purpose of an amplifier doesn't it?

No, sorry to sound critical, all that means is you are not understanding the technical aspects of the design and use of the amplifier.

You can't input say half a volt with the LG at say half volume setting and expect the PA10 to magically drive your headphones with a powerful signal.

There has to be design parameters in respect of input voltage that typical source devices will output, gain through the amplifier and the design output voltage versus output current. High impedance headphones need high voltage output while low impedance ones with low sensitivity need high current, not all amplifiers are created equal in that regard.

An amplifier that was designed to work with hypothetically 0.5 volts would clip the signal if a normal 2 volt signal was introduced, there has to be design limits and I suspect that your use case is running into a clash between your expectation and real world performance.

Still listening to my DT1770 250 ohm off the PA10 3.5mm at about 5 o'clock and they are plenty loud for normal listening and they sound fantastic. And I am not a quiet listener so when I say normal I don't mean a bit over a whisper, the volume is well past where I can hear the keyboard clicks.

EDITED TO ADD: I just put the PA10 away and I realised I was listening on low gain so there was a bit more power available than my comments were based on.

 

[RIGATIO]

Yes I think this might be a factor as well though the whole reason to get an amplifier is to amplify the weak signal. If you have to feed a high powered signal of over 2V this defeats the whole purpose of an amplifier doesn't it?

If you still want to use the pa10, i would consider buying a used dap with a dedicated line-out. Maybe IBasso dx170? I think you can grab a used one for around 300 bucks or even less. Ibasso always had a very good and clean line outs. You can also get something from Hiby or Shanling. There is no need to go with an expensive source. The ones i mentioned will be a step up in DAC quality over your LG anyways.

 

[BS5711]

Another option for desktop use would be a cost effective little USB DAC like the Topping D10S

https://www.toppingaudio.com/product-item/d10-s

Get a USB-C to USB-B cable to run the DAC from your phone and a 2 x RCA to 3.5mm cable to go from the DAC into the PA10.

That would be really quite cheap and would offer a great sounding package at your desktop.

 

[Sulbh]

If you still want to use the pa10, i would consider buying a used dap with a dedicated line-out. Maybe IBasso dx170? I think you can grab a used one for around 300 bucks or even less. Ibasso always had a very good and clean line outs. You can also get something from Hiby or Shanling. There is no need to go with an expensive source. The ones i mentioned will be a step up in DAC quality over your LG anyways.

I have a Cayin N3 pro do you think it will be better option? I think it has Line out.

 

[RIGATIO]

I have a Cayin N3 pro do you think it will be better option? I think it has Line out.

Yes it does have both 3,5 and 4,4 line out and it will definitely be a better sounding source. And it also gives you the option to go fully balanced with the pa10.

 

[punkedrock]

Would the Questyle M15 work with this or do I need a dedicated DAC? I'm lost. Also, I really want this amp but I'm trying to pick out the DAC that's going to be up there and good enough for this puppy.

 

[punkedrock]

I have a Cayin N3 pro do you think it will be better option? I think it has Line out.

THAT'S WHAT LINE OUT IS FOR! Omg... I even knew what Line out was for and just didn't put two and three and eight together for headphone amps! Uh. Kind of funny if you read my post just before.

 

[BS5711]

Would the Questyle M15 work with this or do I need a dedicated DAC? I'm lost. Also, I really want this amp but I'm trying to pick out the DAC that's going to be up there and good enough for this puppy.

It would work fine using the headphone out but you would want to limit the volume on the M15 to around 75% to avoid distortion and crank the PA10 up a bit more to compensate.

Doing that you may possibly run out of headroom if using harder to power headphones but would likely be fine with IEM.

I have done that out of curiosity with an iFi Go Bar and a ddhifi dongle and they sounded good. I didn’t do an exhaustive test comparing the line out from a DAP or from my iFi Gryphon to the dongles but I did not hear any obvious dramatic lack of sound quality with the dongles as the source.

 

[jonkrieger98]

Hello Guys
Thanks for the nice thread
I have a question about the pa10 and cayin n7. At the moment I am using an ibasso dx 300 with amp 12 np audio mod that I like a lot. How is the sound of pa10 compared to itir dies someone use pa10 with the dx300?
Another question is I could get an cayin n7 for good price but must sell then the ibasso.
So overall I want to try class a amp and the cayin 1bit dac.
So should I keep the ibasso and buy pa 10 or cayin n7 or cayin ru7 plus pa 10 ?
Maybe someone can give me an advise
Cheers Jonathan

 

[Tomm11]

Hello Guys
Thanks for the nice thread
I have a question about the pa10 and cayin n7. At the moment I am using an ibasso dx 300 with amp 12 np audio mod that I like a lot. How is the sound of pa10 compared to itir dies someone use pa10 with the dx300?
Another question is I could get an cayin n7 for good price but must sell then the ibasso.
So overall I want to try class a amp and the cayin 1bit dac.
So should I keep the ibasso and buy pa 10 or cayin n7 or cayin ru7 plus pa 10 ?
Maybe someone can give me an advise
Cheers Jonathan

Cayin N7 has class A or AB switchable amplification.

 

[123peter]

In the New Year, I wish for love in our hearts to be stronger than hatred, and for every note of music to be a manifestation of that desire – the desire for peace, understanding, and unity.

May the melody of our lives play notes of understanding and empathy, so that current conflicts give way to reconciliation, allowing those caught within them to return home and cherish the love of their families accompanied by the tranquil music.

At this moment when people worldwide are engaged in conflicts, I wish for politicians to tune into the harmony of music, reminding them that people desire love, peace, and the warmth of home, not wars and bloodshed.

I wish for all of us that the year 2024 brings not only the beauty of melodies but also a true chord of peace resonating in the hearts of every individual.
Happy New Year !.
Peter

 

[RIGATIO]

Visited my friend for christmas and had an opportunity to compare my stack sp1k+pa10 to my friends stationary rig Cambridge CXA81 paired with DacMagic 200M and the pa10 did a better job with all my iems, Sundaras, Aryas and his Night Owls.
His stack had less cotrolled bass, bit like listening to wireless headphones. Also the hights were sharper and less refined. The staging was great but still less 3D than the AK combo. The pa10 gave a more precise and cleaner bass and the hights were just perfect- detailed but smoother and never peaky.
The more i listen to the pa10 the more i love it. Just feed it with a great quality signal and enjoy a fully high end desktop-like sound.

 

[RIGATIO]

Just checked the high current with the Softears Twilight and for me it is the way to go. The sound is slightly more dynamic, the stage opens up bit more (positions vocals and instruments even more clearly outside the head) and the midbass seems to be more powerful and controled. Havent change this setting for a long time but i think i will keep it on high from today on. Havent checked with my other iems and headphones but with a single DD iem, its quite prominent.