With which DAPs would I get a full, 3D, expansive sound?
Will chaining up with PA10 improve it?
Astell&Kern Launches KANN Ultra DAP and AK HB1 Bluetooth Amp/DAC
- Thread starter JasonNYC
- Start date
Will chaining up with PA10 improve it?
Of the ones I've spent good time with and regardless of price - these stand out:
DX320
LPGT
Cayin N8ii
Yes, adding the PA10 to the Ultra improves the IEM performance - to me - giving it that fuller, enveloping character.
ULTRA is one of the few new DAPs on the market which, according to the diagram,
has an isolated path for LO, and actually bypasses the amplifier.
This is not so obvious with other manufacturers who use an internal amplifier to increase the voltage at the LO output,
not to mention it, which lengthens the path and changes the sound.
I was even more interested in ensuring that the output to e.g. PA10 or another external amplifier was direct and as short as possible from the internal DAC.
has an isolated path for LO, and actually bypasses the amplifier.
This is not so obvious with other manufacturers who use an internal amplifier to increase the voltage at the LO output,
not to mention it, which lengthens the path and changes the sound.
I was even more interested in ensuring that the output to e.g. PA10 or another external amplifier was direct and as short as possible from the internal DAC.
M17 has separated line outs for 4.4mm and 6.35mm with volume adjustment, so only 2x ESS 9038 Pro in signal path fully bypassing amp unit.
The number of outputs for PO 2.5, 4.4, 6.3mm headphones does not matter here, also the DAC used.
Here the entire structure and cost of outputting the LO directly.
M17 yes, it is an advanced DAP and it has it, but in which it is like this, I don't know.
Truly balanced LO and PRE-Out outputs inside DAPs are a new solution.
We remember older, expensive A&K 380 models that had external amplifiers with such outputs.
Kann Ultra has such a separate circuit for LienOut and PreOut.
The question is whether this affects the purity and quality of the sound output to the balanced external amplifier.
Here the entire structure and cost of outputting the LO directly.
M17 yes, it is an advanced DAP and it has it, but in which it is like this, I don't know.
Truly balanced LO and PRE-Out outputs inside DAPs are a new solution.
We remember older, expensive A&K 380 models that had external amplifiers with such outputs.
Kann Ultra has such a separate circuit for LienOut and PreOut.
The question is whether this affects the purity and quality of the sound output to the balanced external amplifier.
Well truly balanced probably maybe.. what I know when I want every single detail M17 LO and when I want warmness, soft, lush sound, DX312 which has 2x 4.4mm, one PO and one LO totally separated. Thing is that like Cirrus Logic presentation little more. ESS is detailed and impactfull but not as musical as CS.
Non-scientific estimates:
1. Balanced HP Out - Low Gain: Yes (too loud to get anywhere near 100%)
2. Balanced HP Out - Medium Gain: Yes
3. Balanced HP Out - Super High: Not quite - more like 60% - but close enough.
Edit:
In pre-out mode - volume on Ultra is at max / 150 - gain setting cannot be changed.
This test is prob possible in line-out mode - but I'm not too interested in that.
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@LFC_SL - re your post above: I've seen it mentioned on a certain retailer's site that the Ultra is indeed capable of driving Stealth / Expanse. I cannot agree - not by my standards, anyway.
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Thank you for replying
PA10 at maximum gain and maximum volume - can it be compared to point 2 or even 3?
According to A&K specifications, the ULTRA balanced output has 16Vrms,PA10 has "only" 6.2Vrms.
PA10 is almost 3x quieter than ULTRA?
For what reasons do you not use LO but Pre Out - not to adjust the volume in PA10
(do you have PA10 set to 100% gain on its knob?)
is it more convenient for you - another reason - I wonder?
The appearance and color match well with enleum 23rm.
Well, I'm in the group of Kann Ultra owners. I just got my Kann Ultra DAP today and I'm testing it.
It's a great DAP and has all the options I needed and wanted in A&K DAPs
When playing in Tidal (tidal version 2.92.0) (WHEN DAR is turned off) When the songs are in 24bit 192KHz FLAC, e.g. Muddy Waters My Home Is in the delta, or trial songs that were already DAP, you can hear distortions and not the correct sound, which may Do you also have a reason for this?
But when DAR is turned on, it works fine. All you need to do is turn DAR on and off for a while.
Isn't the problem that Spotify and A&K Player are running in the background?
How should I close apps properly so that they don't run in the background?
This is the case with others as well.
This does not apply only to Tidal, in DSD songs with high sampling only, I cannot repeat it, I am looking for the reason.
Perhaps an update will change this because none has been published yet and these are childhood problems.
It's a great DAP and has all the options I needed and wanted in A&K DAPs
When playing in Tidal (tidal version 2.92.0) (WHEN DAR is turned off) When the songs are in 24bit 192KHz FLAC, e.g. Muddy Waters My Home Is in the delta, or trial songs that were already DAP, you can hear distortions and not the correct sound, which may Do you also have a reason for this?
But when DAR is turned on, it works fine. All you need to do is turn DAR on and off for a while.
Isn't the problem that Spotify and A&K Player are running in the background?
How should I close apps properly so that they don't run in the background?
This is the case with others as well.
This does not apply only to Tidal, in DSD songs with high sampling only, I cannot repeat it, I am looking for the reason.
Perhaps an update will change this because none has been published yet and these are childhood problems.
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How does it compare when used in pre / line out mode with an external amp compared to the N7?The appearance and color match well with enleum 23rm.
I remember having original Kann, there were some bugs people bricked it updating with new update from their site. Astell said that they have to pay for shipping/service etc... sold it. OS will never update, bugs might or might not be fixed, something goes wrong customer support wont be of help. In my exp Ibasso has best support and updates.
ipaddy
human bean
You were not allowed to say that the 4.2 testing was in error, and not say anything else? That would violate a prohibition on discussing pending certifications? That sounds dubious to me.Happy to report KANN Ultra will support Bluetooth 5.3.
There was an issue during the initial certification process where it was incorrectly tested and certified for Bluetooth 4.2, even though the chipset used supports up to 5.3. The player was retested and resubmitted to Bluetooth SIG group for certification through their qualification process. KANN Ultra officially received v5.3 certification overnight.
We apologize for any confusion. Under Bluetooth's licensing rules, we are prohibited from discussing pending certifications until granted, which is the reason we were not able to officially confirm this sooner.
Official notice of KANN Ultra Bluetooth 5.3 support on Astell&Kern website - https://www.astellnkern.com/aknews/akNews_detail.jsp?newsNo=46&searchParamUrl=newsCategoryNo=7&pageSize=10&page=1&langType=1
Certification info from Bluetooth SIG product database:
ipaddy
human bean
All that hyperventilation and hysteria" could have been avoided by Jason simply saying at the beginning what he said now. Just that an error had been made in testing, that it was only submitted for 4.2 by mistake. Leaving silent any mention of testing for 5.3.
Instead, we had "official" confirmations of 4.2, despite the fact that AK knew people were upset about it.
Doing that is wrong.
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