[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens We do measure headphone in accord with the ANSI and IEC standards. Headphone graphs are not like speaker graphs in that there is significant interaction and interdependence between the device under test and the test equipment itself. A person definitely has to get used to what the graphs look like. We have had occasional problems measuring headphones, especially at the beginning and with sealed cans. The PX200 was particularly troublesome. But Sennheiser was pretty satisfied with our measurements; I think you can feel pretty confident, too.

That could be it or at least part of it. It just seems to me that some of your graphs do not correlate to what I'm hearing. One prime example is the HD280's, looking at your graphs it appears there is no low bass to speak of yet while I'll admit they are a bit lean through the midbass I've yet to find a headphone with the low bass output that the 280's have.

 

[bigears]

Tyll Hertsens, hi

Is always nice to see Good Will and Entusiasm.

Liked very much your post.

http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?...are+Headphones

One problem is fixed, but others arent, as you see, cant be compared impedances of Senn Hd650, HD600 and HD580...

And what about making measurements of headphones stock and with upgraded cable?
In question the Beyer Dt880 with cardas (not balanced is the more common i think)
and the Sennheiser Hd595 with cardas also.

There should be some differences... and it could be a reason to upgrade for several headfiers also...

What do you say Tyll ? Can it be done ?

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero One prime example is the HD280's, looking at your graphs it appears there is no low bass to speak of yet while I'll admit they are a bit lean through the midbass I've yet to find a headphone with the low bass output that the 280's have.

Just had a look and you're probably right. I don't think we've updated that one and it does look wrong. Thanks for bringing it up. Thanks to you too, rsaavedra, I'll mention the bug to Matt. We will work on it as we have time.

I'm not sure we've ever really spent any time meauring headphones with different cables but I'll bet you luch you can't see a thing different. That's not to say I don't think it does make a difference because I think it's pretty significant, but I don't think you'll be able to see it in the data. We'll do it someday I promise.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens Just had a look and you're probably right. I don't think we've updated that one and it does look wrong. Thanks for bringing it up.

Excellent!

Sorry if I came across rather strongly, I do think your measurements do a great service to the community when people use them correctly but lately I've been seeing alot of people quoting the graphs as if they were the gospel and could tell them exactly how a particular headphone will sound. I think a few members have even kind of parodied this in recent threads. I've found the idea of people relying on these graphs solely to decide which headphone is better or to determine sound particularly disturbing considering to me some of the graphs seemed to be a bit questionable.

Another thing I've been wondering about is how you go about measuring a headphone like the Grado RS-1 when they are obviously very sensitive to placement and even a pad change can dramatically change the sound? Are there ways to compensate for this or does your method of measuring preclude the need to worry about it?

 

[Andrea]

Tyll,

Hi, and compliments for your sober and well pondered headphone descriptions and for the precious measurements you supply for them. I personally almost can't do without them to orientate myself. Thanks!

 

[rsaavedra]

Tyll great to know you fully agree on this!!

Now Headfiers, we only need some of you to lend your "my precious" high-end headphones to Headroom for a few days during the Summer. I guess you Till will invite people/coordinate something along those lines when the time is appropriate for you to do the measurements. I'll certainly bring this up again in June.

Again some units that are missing that at least I'd like to see graphed:

ATH-L3000 (well pretty much all AT's are missing, at least the AT900 should also be measured imho)
Grado HP-1000 (all the varieties maybe??? HP-1, HP-2, HP-3)
Grado PS-1
Sony Qualia
Sony R10
Sony SA-5000
UE-10

Others...? Someone suggests some Phillips, I don't known specific Phillips models. In general, I think anyone with any cans that Headroom hasn't measured and is glad to lend those cans for a few days for measuring should do so when appropriate.

Looking forward to all those graphs!!!

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Another thing I've been wondering about is how you go about measuring a headphone like the Grado RS-1 when they are obviously very sensitive to placement and even a pad change can dramatically change the sound?

Speaking of which, if after-market cabled headphones are to be measured some time in the future, in particular Grado's could be measured with different pads/bowls varieties to show the corresponding change in balance. That is much more likely to show differences in the graphs compared to a cable swap.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ 20...40...60...80...100...120...140...160...180...200...400...600...800...1,000...1,200...1,400...1,600 ...1,800...2,000...4,000...6,000...8,000...10,000...12,000...14,00 0...16,000...18,000...20,000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens When we go by 20’s the tick marks are (left to right) 20,40, 60,80,100,120,140,160,180,200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800, 2000, 4000, 6000, 8000, 10,000, 20,000.

Tyll just to check, there should be some 2K separated values also between 10K and 20K right? I thought Jazz had them right, but now I'm wondering.

 

[Jamey Warren]

rsaavedra,

We would love to measure all of the headphones you've listed.

From Tyll's original post about the measurements in Mall-Fi:

Currently we only have data for the headphones that we carry, but we will be happy to start adding more headphones to our database. To have you cans added to the database simply call Jamey (1-800-828-8184 or jamey@headphone.com) to make sure we don't have your model cans coming already from someone else; then box them up and send them to us. We will measure them and send them back to you with a hard copy of the data and HeadRoom coffee cup. You pay the shipping to us, we pay for FedEx second day shipping back to you; we should be able to turn it around within 5 working days.

I hope you guys enjoy this function on our web site and enjoy using it often. If you have any suggestions you can send them to me and we'll consider them for the next upgrade of this website feature. I expect it will be a couple of years before we make the next rev, but we'd love to develop a wish list.
__________________
Tyll



I'm hoping to measure (and listen to) many of those listed so send em' my way!!

Thanks,
Jamey

 

[elnero]

Now that's customer service!!!

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamey To have you cans added to the database simply call Jamey (1-800-828-8184 or jamey@headphone.com) to make sure we don't have your model cans coming already from someone else; then box them up and send them to us. We will measure them and send them back to you with a hard copy of the data and HeadRoom coffee cup. You pay the shipping to us, we pay for FedEx second day shipping back to you; we should be able to turn it around within 5 working days.

WOW, that's absolutely excellent!!!!! Thanks Tyll, Jamey, and Headroom in general!!!

 

[bhd812]

I don't care what the graphs mean much cause I dont know how to read them, the reason is because no one taught me...anyway in to learning what the colored lines mean and where?

If I ever was really drunk and bored I could have some fun with the graphs now.. I would trace my finger on the line and say "ohhh ahhhh ohhh ahhh etc"

I will let headroom know what I am drunk next time, but it doesnt happen often.."Hey Jamie.(hic-up) how are ya buddy? (burp)..you know I always loved you man...I just wanted you to know that..(hic-up)...Jamie can i ask you a man to man question?..(burp) have you ever thought about a gigantic beach ball just bouncing down your street? (burp) I mean a ball the size of like three house's man! that would be just awesome! damm strait man!"


umm forget this post...

 

[apnk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 I don't care what the graphs mean much cause I dont know how to read them, the reason is because no one taught me...anyway in to learning what the colored lines mean and where? If I ever was really drunk and bored I could have some fun with the graphs now.. I would trace my finger on the line and say "ohhh ahhhh ohhh ahhh etc" I will let headroom know what I am drunk next time, but it doesnt happen often.."Hey Jamie.(hic-up) how are ya buddy? (burp)..you know I always loved you man...I just wanted you to know that..(hic-up)...Jamie can i ask you a man to man question?..(burp) have you ever thought about a gigantic beach ball just bouncing down your street? (burp) I mean a ball the size of like three house's man! that would be just awesome! damm strait man!" umm forget this post...

HAHAHAHA

 

[gshan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 More graphs the better! I'm also interested in graph of sa1k/3k/5k

ditto.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigears 5) The use of 20hz, 100hz, 1000hz, 10000hz, 20000hz for Frequence Response, Impedance, and Isolation would be better The reference for Impedance measuring is also 1000hz. Currenty is 20hz, 200hz, 2000hz, 20000hz, Also is not clear what the other vertical lines are... As for Harmonic Distortion, is also not clear which frequencies are between 300hz and 3000hz.

the scales are logarathmic.

if you understand the scale it is QUITE clear how they function, and it becomes more clear what they are really saying.
the scales are arranged this way because the variations at lower frequencys are more important than those at high frequencys, and if the scale was "equally spaced" you would not be able to distinguish diferences at low frequencys.

each line represents an equal change of frequency. in the case of the 300-3khz graph, each vertical line represents a change in freq of 300hz. it goes:300,600,900,1200,1500,1800,2100,2400,2700,300 0hz.

the typpical 20-20khz graph is spaced similarly... between 20 and 200hz is spaced 20hz apart, between 200 and 2000 is spaced 200 apart....

note that the spacing of every time you increase the freq by a factor of 10 (going from 20 to 200hz, or 200 to 2000hz...) is an equal linear distance. it is much more convinent to compare the octaves of music this way, as they are reflected in a fixed multiplyer increase.

please also note that i do not mean this as any personal attack, although it may sound that way.