ASIO, better quality?
Jan 5, 2007 at 4:10 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

DesmondDavidH

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Ok, I spent the last hour trying to find info about ASIO. Everything I found was about the better latency, not much more than that.

There's something else other than latency? I mean, I'm not a musician nor a producer, I just listen to music (flac/acc/mp3) and latency is nothing I need. So why this hype about ASIO? I guess there's also some sort of quality benefit, maybe the OS mixer do a sound degradation? Or it's just the fact that the sound stream is now unbound to volume control? Is There a measurable benefit of bit-perfect output (if ASIO is bit-perfect)?

Enlight me please.
o/
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 6:35 AM Post #2 of 20
ASIO is only truly useful for some recording applications, or instances where you want to "sync" one sound device with another---maintaining very low latency.

If your sound card supports bit-perfect output, it is possible to attain it using regular WaveOut or DirectSound output, if your volume dials are set properly. Usually this involves setting Wave and Master volumes to 100%.

Even if your soundcard doesn't support bit-perfect (the majority do not), you can still get audibly-perfect sound with software resamplers. Many cards resample to 48khz internally. So just configure foobar with PPHS resampler to 48khz, and your golden.

And by the way, even though the X-Fi cards DO genuinely support bit-perfect output, it is pointless to use unless you just like placebo effects. I tested it myself---the "noise" the X-Fi's resampling to 48khz added to the signal was in the order of around -130 to -138dB. Nothing you would be capable of hearing, even if you had exceptional hearing, and had the best equipment in the world. With noise at such a low magnitude, in order to be able to hear the low level noise, you would need to turn up the volume to the point where the desired signal(your song) would in fact deafen you. Or if not deafen, severely impair your hearing.

If you have a non-xfi card that resamples(AC97, Live, Audigy), those may actually add noise in the -80 to -100dB domain. This is still extremely low, and will not be audible 99% of the time. If you are after purity, simply resample in foobar via PPHS to 48khz which will push the noise down into the -110 to -130dB range.

Lots of people rant and rave about how they want bit-perfect, but there has not to this day(as far as I know), been one person who could tell the difference between BIT-PERFECT playback @ 44.1khz, and HIGH QUALITY RESAMPLING to 48khz when using their EARS ONLY. (In other words, a blind listening test, or ABX)

Having said that, bit-perfect obviously cannot make the output sound WORSE, so if you already have a card that supports it, you might as well use it. But if you have, say, an Audigy2 ZS(with software resampling to 48khz), and you think getting an X-Fi(or any card with bit-perfect) will somehow make things sound much better, you are pretty much wasting your $$$.

Finally, to get back to your original question which was regarding ASIO--- ASIO does not guarantee bit perfect in any way at all. It simply implies a more direct, low latency path to the soundcard. Once the soundcard receives the data, it is still free to resample or do whatever else it wants, regardless of whether the data came from DirectSound or ASIO. And last but not least, Kernel Streaming has almost the same effect as ASIO (in that it bypasses window's kmixer dll, sending data directly to the card). And just like ASIO, it does not guarantee bit perfect.
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 3:14 PM Post #4 of 20
I don't know if there is an audible difference in terms of sound quality in normal conditions but ASIO is simply the best configuration I know of for my sound card and foobar in terms of usability.
For example, kernel streaming eats CPU, causes random playback problem (apparently because it likes to be the only thing working with the soundcard), and introduces a delay between software volume adjustements and actual volume changes(because of the buffer). ASIO has none of these problems.
DS is better in my experience but it has noise issues... for example, here's a repeatable problem: if I play something in winamp in 32k as the same time as I play something with foobar in 44k, adjusting the volume in foobar will introduce noise which gets very loud if I lower it all the way. ASIO doesn't have this particular probem... that's not a big deal of course but, to me, it suggests that DS has other, less obvious and/or repeatable issues that ASIO doesn't have. And since ASIO has no downsides for me in my current configuration (in another configuration, foobar was making repeatable noise in a particular circumstance), I use it.
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 3:31 PM Post #5 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by SeagramSeven /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Lots of people rant and rave about how they want bit-perfect, but there has not to this day(as far as I know), been one person who could tell the difference between BIT-PERFECT playback @ 44.1khz, and HIGH QUALITY RESAMPLING to 48khz when using their EARS ONLY. (In other words, a blind listening test, or ABX)


Even with problem samples? So if I play, say, the infamous udial sample on a modern cheap card and I hear some kind of awful noise, I'm not hearing the resampler?
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 6:55 PM Post #6 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Even with problem samples? So if I play, say, the infamous udial sample on a modern cheap card and I hear some kind of awful noise, I'm not hearing the resampler?


The internal resampling of audigy isn't exactly "high quality", that's why people recommend a better resampler.
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 7:15 PM Post #7 of 20
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking when I posted that. :wink:

That said, software resampling eats CPU so I'd rather not use that anytime I want to play music.
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 7:37 PM Post #8 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by SeagramSeven /img/forum/go_quote.gif

If your sound card supports bit-perfect output, it is possible to attain it using regular WaveOut or DirectSound output, if your volume dials are set properly. Usually this involves setting Wave and Master volumes to 100%.



Not using Windows XP for sure, kmixer WILL resample it. Asio and Kernel streaing will usually allow you to bypass this file and maintain bit-perfect accuracy. And I guarantee you'll hear the difference if you're paying a dts cd or file. resampled dts just doesnt work. it's static.
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 7:46 PM Post #9 of 20
What any of you tried the udial audio clip to determine if you can hear the 48 kHz distortion resampled from the base 44.1 kHz. I can hear it clearly when I use my on-board AC97 intel chip that uses a sigma tel codex feeding my Lavry DA10. I also can clearly hear the clarity the tomes are supposed to have with a 44.1 kHz single out of my M-Audio USB Audiophile when it is set properly sync to my Lavry DA10.

Any almost deaf person can hear these differences.

Remember we are supposed to stay away from any consideration of DBT here. It is in the rules.
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 7:59 PM Post #10 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Remember we are supposed to stay away from any consideration of DBT here. It is in the rules.



DBT? you lost me there.. It's probably really obvious, but... what is that?
blink.gif


Uh ok I'm thinking it's Double Blind Testing. please ignore this post.
especially this bit ------------^
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 8:10 PM Post #11 of 20
Blind testing, as in double blind testing (DBT). I may have just cause this thread to be locked by using those terms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craiglester /img/forum/go_quote.gif
DBT? you lost me there.. It's probably really obvious, but... what is that?
blink.gif


Uh ok I'm thinking it's Double Blind Testing. please ignore this post.
especially this bit ------------^



 
Jan 5, 2007 at 8:26 PM Post #12 of 20
Huh? Maybe I'm not getting your joke.

I thought DBT talk was allowed on all forums except the cable forum.
I've seen it discussed several times and I've not noticed any moderating rampage.
 
Jan 5, 2007 at 8:45 PM Post #13 of 20
Maybe you are right...I may have been taking the restriction to be broader than it should be taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Huh? Maybe I'm not getting your joke.

I thought DBT talk was allowed on all forums except the cable forum.
I've seen it discussed several times and I've not noticed any moderating rampage.



 
Jan 5, 2007 at 9:04 PM Post #14 of 20
i use asia simply because it doesn't allow other windows sounds to pass through while i listen to my music. i was tired of playing wow or chatting on aim and having the im sound come through my music. i hear zero difference with and without asia to my aria, but just eliminating other sounds is why i use it.
 
Nov 4, 2014 at 5:14 PM Post #15 of 20
Bump for more answers.
Is ASIO in 2014 still the best to use for sound quality with Windows 7 and 8?
 

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