[theearbone]

I've had HD580s for approaching 20 years and would really like a same but better upgrade, yet phones I've heard with more detail become more harsh, and to me the trade-off just isn't worthwhile.  I might be one those people that insist old gear is better, despite it being objectively worse, turns out we can't help it and aren't doing it on purpose.
 
There have been lots of posts about various Hifiman's being the path to follow and also reports of really poor quality control on the assembly for some pricey products.  So until they start showing German type consistency they are rejected.
 
I just want an over-the-ear, open, comfy, non-electrastatic phone that doesn't cost four figures and doesn't generate cringes when a vocalist gets to an S or a T or there is a highhat effect.
 
The current rejected 'phones I have are T90s, they instantly lifted veils, demonstrating that the tech has moved on at a similar price point, but ultimately become irritating, almost as if Beyer are doing it on purpose to sell even pricier models, or is it just cable companies that do that?
 
I also have a pair of newer HD600s, had some hd650 but didn't like them with the source and amp I had at the time, perhaps I'll revist them at some point.

 

[serman005]

  I've had HD580s for approaching 20 years and would really like a same but better upgrade, yet phones I've heard with more detail become more harsh, and to me the trade-off just isn't worthwhile.  I might be one those people that insist old gear is better, despite it being objectively worse, turns out we can't help it and aren't doing it on purpose.
 
There have been lots of posts about various Hifiman's being the path to follow and also reports of really poor quality control on the assembly for some pricey products.  So until they start showing German type consistency they are rejected.
 
I just want an over-the-ear, open, comfy, non-electrastatic phone that doesn't cost four figures and doesn't generate cringes when a vocalist gets to an S or a T or there is a highhat effect.
 
The current rejected 'phones I have are T90s, they instantly lifted veils, demonstrating that the tech has moved on at a similar price point, but ultimately become irritating, almost as if Beyer are doing it on purpose to sell even pricier models, or is it just cable companies that do that?
 
I also have a pair of newer HD600s, had some hd650 but didn't like them with the source and amp I had at the time, perhaps I'll revist them at some point.

You might read about the HiFiMAN HE560 and see what you think. It's under $1000.

 

[obobskivich]

I'm not surprised you didn't like the Beyerdynamic headphones - they're much brighter and more forward (this has been my consistent experience with Beyer), and I'm not sure its some sort of "modernity issue." From personal experience I'd say Koss ESP/950, but you seem to have some arbitrary issue with electrostatic headphones for whatever reason. They would likely get you exactly where you want to go though - better than the HD 580, no harshness, good extension, etc. For extra style points, they're an older design than the HD 580.

 

[Me x3]

What about EQing the T90 a little bit in the treble region with a very high quality parametric equalizer like DMG Equality?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I've had HD580s for approaching 20 years and would really like a same but better upgrade, yet phones I've heard with more detail become more harsh, and to me the trade-off just isn't worthwhile.  I might be one those people that insist old gear is better, despite it being objectively worse, turns out we can't help it and aren't doing it on purpose.
 
There have been lots of posts about various Hifiman's being the path to follow and also reports of really poor quality control on the assembly for some pricey products.  So until they start showing German type consistency they are rejected.
 
I just want an over-the-ear, open, comfy, non-electrastatic phone that doesn't cost four figures and doesn't generate cringes when a vocalist gets to an S or a T or there is a highhat effect.
 
The current rejected 'phones I have are T90s, they instantly lifted veils, demonstrating that the tech has moved on at a similar price point, but ultimately become irritating, almost as if Beyer are doing it on purpose to sell even pricier models, or is it just cable companies that do that?
 
I also have a pair of newer HD600s, had some hd650 but didn't like them with the source and amp I had at the time, perhaps I'll revist them at some point.

 

If you have those two I'd just save the money and keep it around in case either one or when both break. You'd need money to order new drivers at the very least, or by that point you could have more money for something like the Audezee LCD-2F. Or better yet, by the time you have that much, something else that also performs better could be in the market.

 

[theearbone]

I've considered making a high frequ roll-off tone control as I mostly go from CD player to headphone amp to 'phones, trying a software approach sounds like a much better idea now I have the mojo. 
 
Hifiman still worry me as a supplier of premium goods that are sometimes poorly made.
 
Think for now I'll concentrate on trying to eq the beyers, if that fails sell them, and look at putting together a dual mono ksa5 clone as, hopefully, an endpoint domestic amp.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Hifiman still worry me as a supplier of premium goods that are sometimes poorly made.

 
Also why I said hold on to your cash, who knows what might come out by the time you saved up more.
 

  I've considered making a high frequ roll-off tone control as I mostly go from CD player to headphone amp to 'phones, trying a software approach sounds like a much better idea now I have the mojo. 
---
Think for now I'll concentrate on trying to eq the beyers...

 

I wouldn't use a roll-off filter since that would affect a wide range of treble frequencies, when the Beyers' response just has a spike or two in the treble region. You need to use peak and it helps a lot to have selectable center freq and Q factor. Since you're going to try software, look into Neutron Music Player for Android (I use my Note3 as a music server on top of being a portable player) and Equalizer APO for Windows.

 

[ostewart]

  I've had HD580s for approaching 20 years and would really like a same but better upgrade, yet phones I've heard with more detail become more harsh, and to me the trade-off just isn't worthwhile.  I might be one those people that insist old gear is better, despite it being objectively worse, turns out we can't help it and aren't doing it on purpose.
 
There have been lots of posts about various Hifiman's being the path to follow and also reports of really poor quality control on the assembly for some pricey products.  So until they start showing German type consistency they are rejected.
 
I just want an over-the-ear, open, comfy, non-electrastatic phone that doesn't cost four figures and doesn't generate cringes when a vocalist gets to an S or a T or there is a highhat effect.
 
The current rejected 'phones I have are T90s, they instantly lifted veils, demonstrating that the tech has moved on at a similar price point, but ultimately become irritating, almost as if Beyer are doing it on purpose to sell even pricier models, or is it just cable companies that do that?
 
I also have a pair of newer HD600s, had some hd650 but didn't like them with the source and amp I had at the time, perhaps I'll revist them at some point.

 

I'm not surprised you didn't like the Beyerdynamic headphones - they're much brighter and more forward (this has been my consistent experience with Beyer), and I'm not sure its some sort of "modernity issue." From personal experience I'd say Koss ESP/950, but you seem to have some arbitrary issue with electrostatic headphones for whatever reason. They would likely get you exactly where you want to go though - better than the HD 580, no harshness, good extension, etc. For extra style points, they're an older design than the HD 580.

 
@theearbone the T90 is notorious for being quite bright, and is the opposite of the Sennheisers you have gotten used to. It's a shame you went for the T90, and not the model that superseded them (the Amiron Home). The Amiron has fixed the brightness issue, and they are a smooth and enjoyable headphone to listen to, especially when paired with a nice OTL headphone amp.
 
@obobskivich have you hear their new models, the Amiron Home, the T1 2nd Generation, T5p 2nd Generation, DT1990 and DT1770? As they are no longer bright, they still have a somewhat forward sound (not the Amiron) but are a lot less harsh.
 
I personally just bought a pair of Amiron Home and sold my Hifiman HE-500, as much as I loved the sound of the HE-500 the weight and comfort was an issue for me.

 

[obobskivich]

@obobskivich
 have you hear their new models, the Amiron Home, the T1 2nd Generation, T5p 2nd Generation, DT1990 and DT1770? As they are no longer bright, they still have a somewhat forward sound (not the Amiron) but are a lot less harsh.

I personally just bought a pair of Amiron Home and sold my Hifiman HE-500, as much as I loved the sound of the HE-500 the weight and comfort was an issue for me.

I gave up hope on Beyer after the T70, if I'm being entirely honest. Maybe they've broken from years of tradition, and I'm not trying to say they all sound the same or speak to products I haven't heard, just that every Beyer I've heard errs towards shrillness. "Bright" by itself is not a sin - there are plenty of other bright headphones (and speakers) that sound just wonderful, but when it veers into "shrill" then it becomes a problem (imho).

I'd still suggest the ESP/950 for the original query.

To the comfort/fit thing - would absolutely agree, and that's something I can't fault Beyer for: they know how to make a comfortable headphone.

 

[ostewart]

I gave up hope on Beyer after the T70, if I'm being entirely honest. Maybe they've broken from years of tradition, and I'm not trying to say they all sound the same or speak to products I haven't heard, just that every Beyer I've heard errs towards shrillness. "Bright" by itself is not a sin - there are plenty of other bright headphones (and speakers) that sound just wonderful, but when it veers into "shrill" then it becomes a problem (imho).

I'd still suggest the ESP/950 for the original query.

To the comfort/fit thing - would absolutely agree, and that's something I can't fault Beyer for: they know how to make a comfortable headphone.

Well if you get the chance, do try some of the new models. Their new head of audio and headphone sector really knows what he's doing and they are not like the Beyers of old