Arrived today: HD 600
Feb 25, 2002 at 5:24 AM Post #46 of 55
Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me
What the hell are they listening to!?#%@#@%@ Backyard highschool indie rubbage?


do you like them too!
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you cant beat sennheiser for that good all-round sound but the grado will take the senn and slap it abit and than stomp on it some more.. grado, the hard rockers headphone
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Feb 25, 2002 at 7:29 AM Post #47 of 55
Quote:

I will never pay over $100 for a cable for a $200 headphone, there's no reason why a replacement cable for the HD-600 should cost that much imo


It wouldn't surprise me if headphone cables are just about the most difficult of the standard audio cables to design and implement well. It's not a really big deal if speaker cables or interconnects are heavy, inflexible, or microphonic. It is a much bigger deal if a headphone cable is. I recently built some DIY interconnects that sound amazingly good for the price, however the construction technique necessary to do so would not work at all for a headphone cable because of the weight and inflexibility.

Worrying about weight, bendability, strength (for when it gets stepped on), microphonics -- all in addition to the normal things like dielectric quality, wire quality, shield, spacing of shield from the conductors, capacitance, resistance, inductance, etc. Don't knock it until you've tried it I say. I've done a small bit of DIY interconnects and it does open your eyes as to why things might cost a bit more than you would expect. No doubt there are a lot of ripoffs out there, but I'm sure there is some legitimate stuff that just costs more to design and make. Same thing with headphone amps. Start making them yourself and you begin to see why they cost more than you would at first think is reasonable.

Add to all of the above the fact that replacement cables for HD600 is not a very high volume market. Any product that is very low volume is bound to cost more to produce, especially if it is made of decent quality parts. I'm not surprised at all that these replacement cables cost $100 and up. Now whether they are worth the money I can't really say since I've never heard one. Have you?
 
Feb 25, 2002 at 7:47 AM Post #48 of 55
Quote:

I will never pay over $100 for a cable for a $200 headphone, there's no reason why a replacement cable for the HD-600 should cost that much imo


There's actually a very good reason why it should cost that much: supply and demand. The demand for replacement cables for the HD600/580 is pretty darned small -- we've probably got the highest concentration of Clou ownership here on Head-Fi of any place in the world
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and there are only a few of us here! Plus unlike the HD580/600 themselves, which are undoubtably produce on an automated assembly line by the thousands, the Clous look to be mostly hand-assembled.

Low demand + non-automated production = expensive

As for the "worth" considering how much better they make the HD600 sound, I definitely think they're worth it (assuming the rest of your rig is up to par). On my rig the Clous made them sound like a completely different (and better!) headphone. Definitely worth the cost for me. Although I wouldn't recommend them to anyone without an excellent source and an excellent amp.
 
Feb 25, 2002 at 12:50 PM Post #49 of 55
The mark-ups of audiophile wires are extraordinary high, more than alot of other markets. A good case in point is Homegrown Audio wires vs. Kimber wires. Kimber KCAG is a 3 braid silver interconnect for $460.00/1m at Audio Advisor, while the Homegrown Audio Super Silver II uses a similiar 3 braid design and construction. I don't know if advertising costs and WBT connectors are the only thing requiring the increased consumer costs in this example. Take a look at these two products:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...sp?sku=KKKCAG1

http://www.homegrownaudio.com/super.htm

I will forever question cable prices for good reason. Demand is only as good as the gullibility of the consumer.
 
Feb 25, 2002 at 5:39 PM Post #50 of 55
You're not really comparing apples to apples here. The Kimber cable is not a braid of 3 solid core teflon coated silver wires like the Home Grown Audio cable is. One of the three wires in the Kimber is a proprietary 7 strand silver in TFE insulation (retail price of $18 per foot), the other two wires are a proprietary 7 strand copper in TFE insulation (retail price of 85 cents per foot). You can buy bulk Kimber Silver Streak braid for $24 per foot, so that's around $150 for a 1M pair. Add the WBT connectors and the retail cost of the parts is $250. The retail cost of the parts in the homegrown is about $60, whether you buy it from them or elsewhere. So the $460 retail, which includes the labor costs, retail markup, marketing costs, etc. does not seem high to me at all if the following is true: Kimbers proprietary 7 strand silver in TFE is really worth $18 per foot.

More importantly, if it sounds like 500 bucks then I don't care how much it cost to design and make. I doubt it is worth that much, but since I don't know anything about it nor have I listened to it, I would be hesitant to say one way or the other just yet. Likewise with the WBT connectors -- $50 per pair looks like a ripoff. Yet, I haven't seen firsthand how well they are constructed nor have I listened to them.

Gullibility can cut both ways. Why should you believe something is overpriced if you don't know how it is made, and have not listened to it? Just because it is expensive? For all I know the KCAG is the ripoff of the century, but I don't have enough information yet to make that call. I've fallen into this trap too. I've mentioned once or twice I thought the Headroom amps were way overpriced. Yet I don't know enough about their design, parts and labor costs, or most importantly, how they sound, to say something like that.
 
Feb 25, 2002 at 6:43 PM Post #51 of 55
Quote:

Originally posted by ponzio
On a lighter note: If someone will invent an attractive, ceiling mounted mechanism for holding a headphone cable like they have for the hoses at carwashes, then I will help them apply for a patent.


I did exactly that in my basement. Hangs down right over my treadmill.

I think someone has already patended the tie-wrap though
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Feb 26, 2002 at 11:08 AM Post #54 of 55
I've actually compared the SS I, which i do own, to the KCAG(borrowed) & PBJ(owned) and preferred the SS I. Every review i read of the Homegrown on AR that mentioned comparing the KCAG or PBJ to the Homegrown SS or Silver Lace, put the Homegrown on top. KCAG is rip-off.
 
Feb 26, 2002 at 9:07 PM Post #55 of 55
Quote:

Originally posted by brosselle


I did exactly that in my basement. Hangs down right over my treadmill.

I think someone has already patended the tie-wrap though
wink.gif


No way, I want the whole swinging arm mechanism, anti-tangle bearings and the rest. I think that the Clou cable is a reasonable substitute for the heavy rubber tubing that whacks the hell out of your car when you move it around.
 

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