Are you a fundamental or overtone hearer?
Feb 8, 2007 at 9:45 PM Post #31 of 52
This was an easy 12/12, played through my HD580's and my Audigy2. I have no idea how people would hear them differently. It seems that a lot of people hear fundamentals, I wonder what hearing overtones is like
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Oh well, I guess the above translates to 12 years of piano, 7 years of violin, and some drabble with guitar
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Feb 8, 2007 at 10:02 PM Post #32 of 52
Well here you go fellas....

I got 0/12, I swear. IBM laptop => modded JVC FX33

I had to think about it a little bit on a couple tones.

I took the test twice, same result.



I wonder how results change at different times of day? Its well documented that hearing perception is different in the morning versus late afternoon.
 
Feb 8, 2007 at 10:30 PM Post #33 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well here you go fellas....

I got 0/12, I swear. IBM laptop => modded JVC FX33

I had to think about it a little bit on a couple tones.

I took the test twice, same result.

I wonder how results change at different times of day? Its well documented that hearing perception is different in the morning versus late afternoon.



Aren't you a long-time guitarist too?

So tell us...what's it....what's it like? Is it weird? Does it hurt?
 
Feb 8, 2007 at 10:57 PM Post #34 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrvile /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Aren't you a long-time guitarist too?

So tell us...what's it....what's it like? Is it weird? Does it hurt?




LOL... I guess I never really noticed it before. I mean...I certainly can hear, at least what I believe to be the fundamental notes. Its not like all I hear is a room full of reverberated reflections, when I listen to live instruments.

Ive commented before on my enjoyment for drums. In fact, I find drum acoustics to be the main difference between different headphones. The tonal impact of the skin, the resonance of the wood chamber and the reverberation of the venue/studio as the note decays. I hear drum tones in very distinct segments of sound as the notes decay... almost like its in slow-motion.

I wonder how much difference the headphones make? I'm going to try again with my PK1 when I get home.

**edit** No it doesn't hurt
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Feb 9, 2007 at 3:57 AM Post #35 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
From what I understand, this test doesn't really say all of much anyway. One could say that the fundamental pitch is increasing/decreasing, but at the same time, many of these instances have CHORD changes which are moving the opposite direction of the fundamental change.


The way I read that thread it's hard to tell whether chords have anything to do with it or not, which is exactly the problem. It's why I feel like I did just after watching 2001. Seems very interesting, and maybe profound, but just what is it?

By the way, 11/12 fundamental, #7 overtone. About 4 of them I could have picked either way, but couldn't really decide. Was like those SAT questions where the answers were all bad.
 
Feb 9, 2007 at 4:06 AM Post #36 of 52
Anybody else is able to hear both fundamental and overtone mode with the last signal.

With Foobar I put my cursor on 1:40 and press it to keep repeating the last signal.

I naturally hear the tone increasing in Fundamental mode but If I concentrate I can hear the tone decreasing in overtone mode. It's hard to describe how I do it. It seem that I'm able to concentrate on other part of the sound and make myself hear the overtone. After a while I'm able to hear a clear cut Decreasing tone.
 
Feb 9, 2007 at 4:32 AM Post #37 of 52
12/12, going 6 years of playing the viola, but I almost exclusively listen to Bach. When I listen to his organ pieces, I always hum out the lower lines, while enjoy the top, wierd huh, fundamental/overtone difference.

But I don't think years of musical experience matters... my 5 year old cousin scored the same.

It would've been cool if I could hear 0/12 though.
 
Feb 9, 2007 at 4:34 AM Post #38 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
LOL... I guess I never really noticed it before. I mean...I certainly can hear, at least what I believe to be the fundamental notes. Its not like all I hear is a room full of reverberated reflections, when I listen to live instruments.

Ive commented before on my enjoyment for drums. In fact, I find drum acoustics to be the main difference between different headphones. The tonal impact of the skin, the resonance of the wood chamber and the reverberation of the venue/studio as the note decays. I hear drum tones in very distinct segments of sound as the notes decay... almost like its in slow-motion.

I wonder how much difference the headphones make? I'm going to try again with my PK1 when I get home.

**edit** No it doesn't hurt
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it's like i dunno you anymore, mr overtone!
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Feb 9, 2007 at 4:46 AM Post #39 of 52
Well when starting the test didn't know how it would go, after the first couple of sounds I realized what it was about. Simultaneously some couple of notes followed by another couple, so that the sounds might feel as if go up and/or down in frequency. Whichever you seem to pick first or more easily, then matching with the target table (which depends on the intricacies of the intervals played I'm sure), seems to classify you as "fundamental" or "overtone" hearer.

Well, I don't have perfect pitch hearing, but I sang as a baritone in a choir for almost four years. We were trained to get acustomed to harmonies and simultaneous notes ("dibises" as our instructor called them) within our own kind of voice and with respect to the other voices in the choir (particularly with sopranos in our pieces, but then also with tenors and altos). We needed to anticipate those dibises and harmonies especialy when they had a tendency to go out of tune in the group, whichever the voice at fault. We had to feel those dibises and identify if they were in tune and were kept in tune while singing them. We were also encouraged to freely "enjoy" them, even though some times they sounded quite odd. We had to memorize how they sounded and how they felt for us to tackle them properly and confidently in concert. Also we were instructed to try to listen to higher pitch notes that we weren´t actually singing, but that could be heard (or perceived?) coming out of our voices somewhere when singing the dibises or harmonies (were those "higher harmonics" or "overtones"? not sure of the exact term in music, and in English).

In any case, I can easily hear both simulatenous tones in pretty much all the samples. Here´s my analytic description of what I heard. At least to me all samples sounded like two notes played simultaneously, followed by another couple of notes played simultaneously, in general it seems one higher in frequency than one of the previous, another lower in freq. than the other previous one.

Anyway, only in samples #3 and #6 it wasn't immediately obvious to me the decrementing "sound" or interval. In all the other cases I could hear both tones and perceive both an increment and a decrement played simultaneously with respect to the immediately preceding "dibise" (sort of, can't explain it better). So I decided to write the table indicating whichever type (increment or decrement) I could detect, and using Capital letters for the one that kind of stood out first to my ear.

Code:

Code:
[left]IncrDecr 1xX 2xX 3X 4xX 5Xx 6X 7Xx 8xX 9xX 10xX 11Xx 12Xx[/left]

What I can see from the table is that in general I seem to have a preference to detect the increments more easily. If I sort of normalize that table choosing one column only, the most easily detectable to me, it would be the following:

Code:

Code:
[left]IncrDecr 1-X 2-X 3X- 4-X 5X- 6X- 7X- 8-X 9-X 10-X 11X- 12X-[/left]

Which gives a score of 8/12 if I counted correctly. So it seems my ears are slightly in favor of fundamental tones. This doesn´t tell me much though, since I could clearly distinguish the simultaneous increment and decrement in 10 out of the 12 cases. Chose one in each case because the exercise ask us to do so, otherwise I would have just thought of those increments and decrements occuring simultaneously, without any reason to choose one vs. the other. As in the choir, we were expected and encouraged to be aware of all intervals, increments and decrements we were making (in fact, we were encouraged to learn all voices in the choir, not just our own).

Did this test with Grado SR60's plugged directly into the headphone out of my laptop. Took it two times to confirm which one, increment vs. decrement, stood out first or more easily.
 
Feb 9, 2007 at 4:49 AM Post #40 of 52
12/12....Grado lover....12/12....26 year woodwind/piano player....12/12....15 year viola player....12/12....timbrelusterafterer....12/12....

What can this mean?!?!?!?

R10's?
K1000's?
Stax?
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QUALIA'S????
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Feb 9, 2007 at 5:12 AM Post #41 of 52
i tried this with my super.fi 5 pros and my results were all wacky. i plugged in my senn 595's and instantly got 12/12.

amazing.

i also play instruments (trumpet and guitar). anyone care to explain the meaning of being a fundamental listener vs overtone? the linky provides minimal explanation.

oh and also. that tone they chose was a bit abrasive. i def did not enjoy listening to it.
 
Feb 9, 2007 at 5:21 AM Post #42 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
12/12....Grado lover....12/12....26 year woodwind/piano player....12/12....15 year viola player....12/12....timbrelusterafterer....12/12....

What can this mean?!?!?!?

R10's?
K1000's?
Stax?
eek.gif
eek.gif
eek.gif
eek.gif
QUALIA'S????
eek.gif
eek.gif
eek.gif
eek.gif



Hmmm...I did the test again (both times with pc speakers)...this time...anticipating the results, I tried to hear the opposite result and I could 12/12...meaning that one could listen for either and hear it. I was intrigued by this but post #40 in that thread really deconstructs the test well and he even provides samples to train oneself to hear either way.

It would be interesting to read more about this. I have an awesome fMRI scanner down the hall from me. Maybe I can take a Saturday afternoon and test this when the system is not in use. I'll have to gather up a few grad students as guinea pigs but I'm sure there will be some interest from the powers that be.
 
Feb 9, 2007 at 7:09 AM Post #44 of 52
I just re-played the tones. this time with my Laptop => Larocco PPA => Koss A250.

Somewhat different results, as this time I scored 4/12. On three tone pairs I could have gone either way, as I could clearly hear both an increase in pitch and a decrease at the same time.

So clearly I'm more of an overtone listener, although the degree seems to vary greatly with the headphones.
 
Feb 9, 2007 at 7:33 AM Post #45 of 52
I tried to do this a few times to make sure I wasn't completely nuts. I'm not sure how to describe it. It sounded like two tones to me, played together, with one of the tones changing frequency, but at the same time I would sort of hear this underlying fundamental for each. So, in some weird sense, it was like hearing both results, but not exactly. When I looked at the results chart after doing the test, I thought I must have done this incorrectly and then went on doing other stuff. Well today I got around to looking through the HA thread and it seems what I heard was more or less what was going on, which is the psychoacoustic effect of fundamental reconstruction coupled with the actual tones being played back. Interesting.

Anyhow, I can get 12/12 pretty much for either overtone or fundamental, which makes me wonder if maybe there is some better way to test this. I think some of this result is simply ear training from having tested psy models in the past, rather than some sort of special 'golden ear' physiology or whatever.
 

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