[BigTony]

Its such a pity Apple force ITunes on us, it really drives me crazy - especially as itunes won't install on my notebook i have as my music server. I use my iTouch as a remote control for my music server, and a sansa fuze (with drag n drop flac) as my DAP.

And yes, phones will be the death of daps just like they klled off pda's - and it won't be because there better!

 

[LeeMark]

Not for me, as this is a storage issue. Since there is such a big difference in sound quality and size when using lossless files, and having over 6000 songs in this format, unless the phones have over 100 gb of storage there is no way i would use a phone. I have the iphone and if i replace my 160 gb classic with it in my system (see below) the loss of quality is glaring. I can't see how people use the phone with an amp and good headphones and not know that the use of lossless files greatly enhances the sound. It just seems like a waste of money just for convenience of an integrated product.
Lee

 

[ericj]

I think that the primary objectives of making a good cell phone are fundamentally at odds with the primary objectives of making a good DAP.

It's arguable whether the iphone is both a good phone and a good DAP, for example. I don't have one, but my eldest brother does, and tells me that if he didn't use it to read email and watch videos of american tv (he lives in singapore right now) he wouldn't like it as a phone.

We've seen how even on 'cutting edge' devices like the Palm Pre, DAP functionality on most phones is an afterthought. A bullet point feature fulfilled halfheartedly.

I think devices on a similar level of quality to the iphone will probably replace 30% or so of DAPs for casual users, but most people enjoy a level of convenience with their DAP that an application added to their phone won't give them.

For serious users, I predict that there will never be a cell phone that ranks in the top 10 of DAPs for sound quality or feature richness.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif For serious users, I predict that there will never be a cell phone that ranks in the top 10 of DAPs for sound quality or feature richness.

I agree with that, but I also think that the preferences of audiophiles have been a vanishingly small consideration for product designers since the rise of the iPod.

Having owned a couple of DAPs, some PDAs that played music, many PCDP's, and a series of minidisc units, I find myself limited to an impoverished choice between two unacceptable options: DAPs with hundreds of bells and whistles and poor sound, and phones with fewer (audio) bells and whistles and even worse sound.

Sure, I could buy another RH1, if I could afford to fork over the $400 they are currently selling for. Or I could buy another mediocre sounding PDA, if I could find one. The range of available PCDPs is too limited to even merit consideration.

So again, I either buy a DAP (probably a Fuze if I were gonna do it), or I submit to the AppleBorg and buy an iTotchke for approximately three times what it is worth.

My point? The eventual hegemony of cell phones is a guarantee, and you or I will not be able to opt out. DAPs as a separate category are on borrowed time. Consumer electronics companies will not produce products for which there is no demand, and audiophiles do not register on any marketing ghoul's radar.

I expect to be frequenting second-hand stores for my portable audio needs in the very near future.

 

[bba1973]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akki007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I completely agree, it is all in the marketing. But, what I, and proabably thousands of others have done is wait and wait until the iPhone looked like it could do the lot. I have always steered clear of the iPhone because 16gb isn't enough for me. So for me, the 3GS is the first iPhone, I completely ignored the first 2!

Smart idea. Their marketing still gets on my nerves though, especially the copy/paste iPhone commercial. Maybe the next iPhone will come with free Bose IEMs.

Quote:

I agree with that, but I also think that the preferences of audiophiles have been a vanishingly small consideration for product designers since the rise of the iPod.

People just don't care about SQ anymore. It amazes me how my friends can't tell the difference between my portable rig and iPods with iBuds and 128 AAC. Just one of the reasons why I have little faith in my generations Most of the people I know that spend lots of money on sound systems spend it on bass-rattling car setups that sound awful.


Quote:

Sure, I could buy another RH1, if I could afford to fork over the $400 they are currently selling for. Or I could buy another mediocre sounding PDA, if I could find one. The range of available PCDPs is too limited to even merit consideration.

Can you even find a PDA that will read 8GB+ memory cards? Current PCDPs have great skip protection and battery life, but that's about it.

 

[ericj]

Well people have been saying for 10 years that the PDA is going to be completely replaced by feature-rich phones, but it hasn't happened yet. It's only *mostly replaced it.

That was a situation where there was very little a PDA could do that a good phone couldn't. There were very few user interface differences between them, and none that were contradictory. There was also obvious need for convergence - your phone needs your contact list, so why keep it somewhere else?

Most phones that can play music can't be operated without taking them out of your pocket, many without actually looking at the screen, some without disabling a hold switch of some sort first. This is a major inconvenience for a lot of people, and changing the way a phone works to make it a better music player could make it substantially less desirable as a phone.

There's also the way that an ipod or similar is almost always a music player - there's convenience in not having to change the 'mode' of a device to get it to do the other thing it does.

I think a lot of people are such creatures of comfort that they will continue to prefer a DAP that is chiefly a DAP and a communications device that is chiefly a communications device.

 

[pata2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by epithetless /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't know Rockbox was a mobile OS...

Sure, if you're stuck using currently supported players. I don't see the Rockbox team can support newer players as fast as companies releasing them.

 

[pata2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with that, but I also think that the preferences of audiophiles have been a vanishingly small consideration for product designers since the rise of the iPod.

I don't think the iPod deserve that much credit. The diminishing focus for audiophiles started pretty much when manufactures started focusing on battery life (weaker amps, compression, etc) and cost (or profit).

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure, if you're stuck using currently supported players. I don't see the Rockbox team can support newer players as fast as companies releasing them.

obviously not - the companies have field application engineers from the chip vendors helping them write code, the rockbox guys often have to reverse-engineer it.

OTOH if someone told me i could only ever use the DAPs that i currently own, I'd probably be ok with that, given a continuing supply of batteries . .

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think the iPod deserve that much credit. The diminishing focus for audiophiles started pretty much when manufactures started focusing on battery life (weaker amps, compression, etc) and cost (or profit).

It's hard to argue with that. Our culture really produces only one product: convenience. That trumps everything. To me it's a bit like the restaurant that serves awful food, but manages to attract customers because the portions are large.

 

[Cyarron]

My dedicated DAP (a sony s-series walkman) just bit the dust. I have been looking at having a feature-rich phone for a while (I am an architect so I need a decent camera so I can take pictures of buildings and details whenever I see them) and so I have been looking at the nokia n79. It has wifi and a good camera and I've heard some people say it has good sound quality. Has anyone here had an experience with this phone? I know it won't be perfect sound quality but if it is just good, I'd be ok with that for daily use (I might get a better portable rig for traveling). Does anyone else have recommendations for good full featured camera phones that have good music capabilities?

 

[3X0]

I owned the N85 which sounds identical to the N79 (comes down to bar vs. slider). It sounds OK, quite warm but lacks detail.

 

[Cyarron]

Thanks. It will be mainly for commuting and incidental listening (I have a laptop and a Desktop setup that are really good). I would rather have a player with good tone and less detail than the other way around (since I can get the total package at home). Did you like the phone itself?

 

[3X0]

I loved the phone. It's a better phone than either iPhone I had, though not as nice of a smartphone (nothing beats the app store and iPhone games).

 

[Chri5peed]

I don't think it matters too much, Audiophiles like us will always be found wandering around with quality tunes. DAPs cannot be unmade.