[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamu144 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I have not said $1,000 amp are junk at all.... I am just saying that prices of most of headphones amps look way too high if you consider how "easy" it seems to build one , absence of dealers/distributors for manufacturer, little fixed costs carried by small companies and often poor service level provided...

I think the prices only look way high in that very top end segment.....the majority of headphone amps are, to me, priced along the same lines as the headphones you'd be using with them. A $300 headphone amp for $250-400 headphones seems about normal.

The physical building of amps might be easy, but it's the research - and the time and money it takes to do that research - that isn't so easily attainable.

The amp I ordered, a Travagan White, comes directly from China. Dealing with David Lin, the guy who sells them, has been a positive experience - even with the time differential between central US time and the time in Taiwan, he's always been prompt and to the point with his emails when I have questions. I think a lot of other companies are the same way - people just read about a few on here with horrible service, and that seems to taint the whole market.

 

[Spareribs]

So many amps because so many people.

 

[shamu144]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spareribs So many amps because so many people.

Thank you for your constructive thought on that issue. No offense, but I don't think that will help a lot audiophiles to make better amp choices... Or was it actually intended for manufacturers to keep running their business.

 

[randomprecision]

The problem with being a poor audiophile with a headphone hobby is this.

Most people don't give a damn about sound quality and/or don't have any idea what good sound actually is. They'll go down to Wal Mart, buy the cheapest headphones (that say "For digital" on them, informatively) they can find and be done with it.

Best Buy had one of the upper end Sennheisers in their store here at one time. They had 3. I wanted one but simply couldn't afford it at the time (It was well over $100. Maybe more). Those three sat there and collected dust. Even those who could afford them probably didn't realize you'd actually need a headphone amp to power them adequately.

If you ask me, a really good headphone amp should be built into anything that's designed to be used primarily with headphones. But like I said, many people don't care. Those of us who are picky are few and we will have to pay a premium for what should be the norm.

I do believe many headphone amplifiers are overpriced. Or at least, they would be if they were mass produced like most things are. However, many of them are not really produced in massive quantities and you'll always pay more for things that are built with more care and attention to detail.

 

[Happy Camper]

New releases draw business. If you can have a few shillophiles pushing a new release, the flock will follow. Once reviews come out, its time to have another ready. Try and keep the frenzy going and you can make some good money. Unfortunately, this makes for a lot of average crap. Not every release is a hit.

If you are polite and willing to learn, there are some ultra experienced members willing to give you advice to hopefully keep you from stepping in that average.

 

[headphone_speaker]

i don't think we have a lot of choices for high end electrostatic headphone amplifiers when we consider about availability and build-time.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by headphone_speaker /img/forum/go_quote.gif i don't think we have a lot of choices for high end electrostatic headphone amplifiers when we consider about availability and build-time.

I totally agree. There are some to choose from, but their availability and building time can kill a deal.
* Singlepower ES-1
* Singlepower ES-2
* HeadAmp KGSS
* HeadAmp KGBH SE
* Rudistor Coriolan-2
* Others...

There are a complete lack of portable electrostatic amplifiers as well (not counting the Stax SRM-001).

 

[shamu144]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I totally agree. There are some to choose from, but their availability and building time can kill a deal. * Singlepower ES-1 * Singlepower ES-2 * HeadAmp KGSS * HeadAmp KGBH SE * Rudistor Coriolan-2 * Others... There are a complete lack of portable electrostatic amplifiers as well (not counting the Stax SRM-001).

That's a good point Krmathis and I definitely agree with you. This is the reason why I own the Illusion ESC-1001, so I will never depend on the up and down of this electrostatic top end market... It is just unbelievable in most cases how poor the service level is (customer service long replies, long delays for availability, order list, building times, reliability issues) but still how expensive these things are, just because a few are willing to pay these insane amounts of money.

Please remember that Stax amps DO carry distribution costs (they are sold through authorized dealers) while the ones you are stating do NOT (direct from factory or through intermediates).

This example is prefectly showing how the electrostatic top end market is lacking strong references/standards when it comes to pricing and limited availability (lack of offer) is increasing pressure on prices even more. As for me, I have decided not to play this game, which is only benefitiating manufacturers, and NOT audiophiles (though a few might be indeed very happy to own these excellent amps). And please remember I am not saying they are "bad" amps, just wayyyy overpriced in my opinion.

 

[shamu144]

Please don't be shy and share with us your thought on that matter. You can of course disagree, especially those with extended experience in the amp market.

I really do think that for the benefit of the head-fi community, we need a better understanding of this market, and I can't remember any specific thread.

I think it would be easier at this stage to rename that thread which is fundamentaly trying to answer the following question: Are HP amps overpriced ?

 

[QQQ]

Yes, headphone amps are overprived.

 

[shamu144]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, headphone amps are overprived.

Thank you for your contribution QQQ, though I think it is not fair to just acknowledge that statement without clarifying the arguments you are using to back it up.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamu144 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a good point Krmathis and I definitely agree with you. This is the reason why I own the Illusion ESC-1001, so I will never depend on the up and down of this electrostatic top end market...

I am seriously considering going the same route.
Since I will need a power amplifier for my K1000, and hence could use it for my Stax'en as well (through an energizer). I have the SRD-7 Pro, but the Illusion ESC-1001 are tempting..


An direct-drive amplifier might be "better". But that don't help since they are virtually non-existing.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomprecision /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do believe many headphone amplifiers are overpriced. Or at least, they would be if they were mass produced like most things are. However, many of them are not really produced in massive quantities and you'll always pay more for things that are built with more care and attention to detail.

I'm not sure that mass produced means less care and attention to detail. It may indeed mean greater consistency. What you're paying for with the one- man operations is R&R time and of course relatively inefficient production. And this may justify the price---the question is, are you as the consumer prepared to subsidise that R&R and that inefficiency?

I'm just asking. You may prefer that to putting yet more shekels into the coffers of Sony, NAD etc.

 

[QQQ]

Quote:

Thank you for your contribution QQQ, though I think it is not fair to just acknowledge that statement without clarifying the arguments you are using to back it up.

What kind of back up you need? Should i back up the statement that the sky is blue and the fire is hot? It's the same thing here, buddy...

 

[rds]

Are diamonds overpriced?