[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif its the same for a 10'' subwoofer and a 18'' subwoofer, you will find the 18 puts out bigger bass but the 10 will put out tighter quicker response as it has less distance to travel with the same input power

I'm no expert, but I don't think this is scientifically sound. "Less distance to travel"? It is either going to move fast enough to reproduce the correct frequency or it isn't. If it "slows" it is going to create a lower frequency, and therefore not be accurate.

The reason for smaller woofers is that they can reproduce higher frequencies because they can "move faster" (by definition, creating a higher frequency), and therefore can have higher crossovers with the tweeter.

This is all moot in a single driver design. It is either going to produce the frequency accurately (in comparison to the rest of the frequency range) or not -- the lower frequency signal isn't traveling any slower to get to the driver than the higher frequency signal.

--Chris

 

[biph911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif its the same for a 10'' subwoofer and a 18'' subwoofer, you will find the 18 puts out bigger bass but the 10 will put out tighter quicker response as it has less distance to travel with the same input power

You are making some pretty big generalizations. I'd offer that the 18" woofer, does not have to move as far as the 10" woofer to displace the same amount of air. Distance traveled relative to power input has little to do with woofer diameter, compared to other driver characteristics (sensitivity, mass, etc.).

I believe the phrase you are looking for is "transient response". There is not a direct relationship between driver size and transient response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif yes but whats your point. how do you define that the crossovers effects sound and how can you prove this, most of the time its almost impossible to equate how the crossover effects sound so i think its safe to say we can ignore the crossovers as they rarely play any part except splitting the frequency range up to seperate woofers/drivers. dont get me wrong tho scientifically they may play a role in the sound output but if you can tell me how thats 10 brownie points to you because i cant hear any effect it may have such as buzzing or low/high sound hums or anything.

Last, are you serious about crossovers not impacting the sound? A crossover works by filtering frequencies at some slope(s). If I set up a first order crossover and I put the high pass at 6db/octave at 2.5khz to one driver,and the low pass at 6db octave at 2.5 khz to another driver, you would definitely hear a problem caused by the crossover. Ever hear of a notch filter used on a single driver? Crossovers very purpose are to manipulate the response of a driver or group of drivers. Just because it isn't humming or buzzing doesn't mean it is accurate sound reproduction.

I apologize if you were being sarcastic in your comment and I just didn't pick up on it. If you weren't, I'll take the brownie points.

 

[The_Duke_Of_Eli]

Find me an IEM with the same sort of clarity in this price range, THEN we'll talk. Just because they're old doesn't mean they can't hold their own. Look at Grados, which haven't undergone changes for some about a decade.

 

[blipmusic]

Frequency response frenzy aside, there's one significant non-sound sig related change I'd like to see happen: a less microphonic standard cable. Also, preferably a shorter one would be nice - "is that an Ety cable in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" (even more so when using the s-cable...). You can give me the advice to wrap it around my ears all day long (which I do, when necessary) but the fact still stands: the ety cable, while being able to take a quite a beating, picks up more noise from rubbing against your jacket than most other IEM's cables (correct me if I'm wrong). I am aware that Westone cables are compatible, I just think it'd be nice if a shorter, less microphonic cable would be supplied from the get go.

EDIT: I'm tired and probably thinking of UE vs Westone cables... sorry for the confusion.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biph911 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are making some pretty big generalizations. I'd offer that the 18" woofer, does not have to move as far as the 10" woofer to displace the same amount of air. Distance traveled relative to power input has little to do with woofer diameter, compared to other driver characteristics (sensitivity, mass, etc.). I believe the phrase you are looking for is "transient response". There is not a direct relationship between driver size and transient response. Last, are you serious about crossovers not impacting the sound? A crossover works by filtering frequencies at some slope(s). If I set up a first order crossover and I put the high pass at 6db/octave at 2.5khz to one driver,and the low pass at 6db octave at 2.5 khz to another driver, you would definitely hear a problem caused by the crossover. Ever hear of a notch filter used on a single driver? Crossovers very purpose are to manipulate the response of a driver or group of drivers. Just because it isn't humming or buzzing doesn't mean it is accurate sound reproduction. I apologize if you were being sarcastic in your comment and I just didn't pick up on it. If you weren't, I'll take the brownie points.

clearly your not adept with subwoofers, a subwoofer moves right, and it returns back to its normal state as quick as possible, i think if you do a little research you will learn that bigger subs tend to take a fraction longer to return to normal state after say a kick of bass, smaller subs return quicker and therfor tend to sound tighter and quicker/cleaner.

and what im asking is, can the crossover effect be heard, im not being sarcy its a serious question, if it can then cool thats fair enough i didnt know, but i dont hear its effects if any thats all

 

[jinx20001]

anyway guys im not kicking up a er4 is bad debate i do think its amazing but certainly has shorcomings that are rectified by others making the etymotics look a bit lame, this little debate about extra drivers is cool but theres no question an extra driver or 2 certainly helps bass response and impact yes??

ofcourse i expect you ety fans to say the etys have amazing accurate deep bass but i for one certainly hear major roll off of deep bass which is surely because its limeted by the single driver and what its handling i.e all frequencies

 

[Walie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blipmusic /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am aware that Westone cables are compatible, I just think it'd be nice if a shorter, less microphonic cable would be supplied from the get go.

HOLD THE PHONE!! You can use westone cables with er4's? Where can I get a set?

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this little debate about extra drivers is cool but theres no question an extra driver or 2 certainly helps bass response and impact yes??

If by "helps" you mean "exaggerates," yes. But this can be achieved using EQ all the same.

--Chris

 

[blipmusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walie /img/forum/go_quote.gif HOLD THE PHONE!! You can use westone cables with er4's? Where can I get a set?

Wait...now you're making me wonder. Gah, I've had a beer too much. Am I really thinking about UE/Westone cable compability? Maybe. Now I've made a fool of myself.

Anyway, I'd still like a cable design change on the etys.

 

[gp_hebert]

Give me an ER4S with an over-the-ear design that would eliminate microphonics and a fuller bottom-end and I'll be a happy man... wait, I already have that and it's called APureSound cable.

Seriously, if Etymotic could provide a simple and effective design like Alex's cable, it would have saved me 200$ and people would stop complaining about annoying cables and microphonics.

 

[mr.karmalicious]

As said, Etys will not become obsolete until there is nobody left to listen to them. Personally, I love the Shure house sound, and my 530s are giving me everything I could ever want right now. In that, I disagree with the statement that Shure, if anybody are becoming obsolete. Granted, they've commercialized a hell of a lot, but if they continue to produce quality products, this isn't a problem in the slightest.

Still, though. Once I get a SuperMicro-IV and a Touch, the Etys may very well be my next purchase, thanks to this thread. I'd love try them out amped, and I'll be making a cable for my 530s that provides a bit more resistance than usual that can be used with the Etys, as well.

 

[apnk]

I don't think so. I recently re-discovered my Ety's and as of now I like em more than my Shures E530's. I find the E530's a little boring kinda like Senns.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hempcamp /img/forum/go_quote.gif If by "helps" you mean "exaggerates," yes. But this can be achieved using EQ all the same. --Chris

haha how did you get that conclusion, lets put it in simpler terms for you, why do most home stereo systems have 2 way or 3 way or 4 ways speakers?? ill tell you, its because by seperating the highs mids and lows you have 3 speakers (3 way) all doing one job, wheras is for instance you have a one way speaker (aka full range) it has the very difficult task of managing all the frequencies together resulting in more chance of distortion, lack of clarity and with deep bass the speaker has to move slowly and further, how do you think that helps the mids and highs.

for this reason you very rarely see full range speakers being produced on a large scale. it works exactly the same way for earphones, the reason shure, ultimate ears,westone amongst many more put multi drivers into their headphones is for this reason, it seperates the frequencies giving each driver an easier job making them more efficient and can manage more power with less distortion, this is fact.

i can tell you now etymotic could have raised bass volume but why do you think they didnt, you say multi drivers dont help the bass but they exaggerate it but how is this possibly plausable, what is your description of exaggerated bass, you mean if you can hear it lol

because etymotics roll off at maybe 100hz

 

[Spyro]

Man....$200 seems insane for a cable (Apuresound).

So a $400 single driver IEM? That's a tough pill to swallow. But when was $$ ever an issue on Head-Fi?

In all seriousness, I wonder what the Ety engineers think of the synergy with that cable?

 

[gp_hebert]

Quote:

because etymotics roll off at maybe 100hz

That's simply not true. You seem very prompt to give opinions in every IEM thread about how much better multiple drivers are, but my impression is that you've never heard a pair of Etys. All your argumentation about multiple drivers is based on absolutely no technical information and the fact that you express Shure fanboyism all the time takes away a lot of credibility.