Are bel canto and Emotiva considered 'high-end' ? Peachtree Audio ?

[estreeter]

I haven't seen a site bring both Chrome and Firefox to their knees like that Odyssey site in quite some time. Definitely a script or some other process tying itself in knots there. I've got a Sandy Bridge Core i3 and 4GB of DDR3  - rarely have an issue with any sites these days. 

 

[obobskivich]

The site is just garbage. IE and Opera were not impressed either. 
 
I'm not sure how to take it (and this is a set-up for a joke) - either they care so much about the amplifiers that they don't spend time on anything else, or they just don't care about anything and don't care who knows about it! 

 
I'm still not seeing how their monoblocks are magical, but if that's what gets you going, go for it. 
Quote:

I haven't seen a site bring both Chrome and Firefox to their knees like that Odyssey site in quite some time. Definitely a script or some other process tying itself in knots there. I've got a Sandy Bridge Core i3 and 4GB of DDR3  - rarely have an issue with any sites these days. 

 
 

 

[MorbidToaster]

 
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Oh dear...You've turned me on to Odyssey and at those price these are hard to ignore...Nice tube pre...Powerful monos at only 3.2k a pair...Tons of optional upgrades? 20 year warranties!?
 
...this is bad. Hide wallet, hide!
 
Kind of a shame theirs pre options aren't balanced, but that's a minor quibble. 
 
EDIT: Their Kismet links are broken...I want to see their flagship stuff...

 
Yeah those links have never actually gone anywhere, I'm not sure what the deal is with that. Anyway, here's a review of the Kismet monoblocks and a pretty good primer on Odyssey Audio. If there's a greater bang for the buck in amplifiers, I don't know what it is. Odyssey amps driving Vapor Sound speakers - now that's a high-end bargain. $6-8K invested in that combo could take on $30K systems. As a side note: Alon Wolf of Magico was asked about what amplifiers he likes and he uses. His answer: Spectral, Boulder, Odyssey.
 
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/odyssey2/1.html

I mainly want to see the kismet tube pre. I ate up the mono block reviews but.there's no info on the rest of the series.

The site is just garbage. IE and Opera were not impressed either. 
 
I'm not sure how to take it (and this is a set-up for a joke) - either they care so much about the amplifiers that they don't spend time on anything else, or they just don't care about anything and don't care who knows about it! 

 
I'm still not seeing how their monoblocks are magical, but if that's what gets you going, go for it. 
Quote:

I haven't seen a site bring both Chrome and Firefox to their knees like that Odyssey site in quite some time. Definitely a script or some other process tying itself in knots there. I've got a Sandy Bridge Core i3 and 4GB of DDR3  - rarely have an issue with any sites these days. 

 
 

Powerful, well reviewed, good looking, class A amps are hard to come by. Especially ones with a matching tube pre.

 

[estreeter]

Not sure what the name 'TEAC' means in other parts of the world, but here in Oz the brand was purchased by a guy who slapped it on the cheapest, nastiest crap he could source from Asia and flog to k-Mart etc. Back in Japan, TEAC bought Esoteric, and it would appear that there may have been some collaboration around the water cooler re 'trickle down'. That, or someone put something in the muffins ....
 
http://www.teac.eu/hifi-audio/distinction-series/ai-3000/
 
Dual XLR inputs dont make anything 'high end', but this is the equivalent of seeing a Daewoo badge on a luxury saloon car. Weird. 
 
TEAC Australia are sticking with their concept of 'fidelity' -  http://www.teac.com.au/ProductDetails.aspx?ModelNumber=MCD62iP

 

[MorbidToaster]

The Esoteric gear seems to be well liked, and while Teac has mainly kept their name on the low end stuff they seem to be making an effort to make 'affordable high end' lately. 
 
No word on it yet, but it sure looks nice.
http://www.hideflifestyle.com/all-products/teac-cd-3000-s-cd-sacd-player-with-usb-input-and-dual-dac-s-in-silver.html

 

[DaveBSC]

 
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Not sure what the name 'TEAC' means in other parts of the world, but here in Oz the brand was purchased by a guy who slapped it on the cheapest, nastiest crap he could source from Asia and flog to k-Mart etc. Back in Japan, TEAC bought Esoteric, and it would appear that there may have been some collaboration around the water cooler re 'trickle down'. That, or someone put something in the muffins ....

 
The situation is very similar to Pioneer and TAD. Pioneer makes stuff that's dirt cheap, and they also have some fairly expensive speakers using "trickle down" tech from TAD. They stay out of the big leagues though.
 

 

[obobskivich]

I guess I missed the tube pres from Odyssey, after the site crashed a few times I said stuff it. 
 
And yeah, Esoteric (and TAD) are mondo expensive components that come out of companies that also produce inexpensive gear. Some companies don't rebrand for that - like Sony, others do (like TEAC). I think Esoteric still makes the most expensive/hoity-toity multi-box CDP in the world (and if they don't, mbl or someone else does). 
 
This:
http://esoteric.teac.com/transports/p-01/
And these:
http://esoteric.teac.com/dacs/d-01/
And this:
http://esoteric.teac.com/master_clocks/g-0rb/
 
I think SRP for that is around $80,000. 
 
 

 

[estreeter]

 
Quote:

 
 
The situation is very similar to Pioneer and TAD. Pioneer makes stuff that's dirt cheap, and they also have some fairly expensive speakers using "trickle down" tech from TAD. They stay out of the big leagues though.
 

 
That's interesting, because Pioneer in Australia is seen as highly desirable for HT fanatics, from their TVs to their receivers. Granted, HT and 2-channel are different worlds, but if you equate high-end with price and the aura of exclusivity, some of the AV receivers out there are incredibly expensive, and that hasnt escaped the attention of traditional high-end stereo amp builders.
 
Whilst I dont happen to have 11K AUD lying around atm, it frustrates me that I could walk into several showrooms in Oz and order this thing, but mention stereo kit and you'll probably get blank looks:
 
http://www.pioneer.com.au/au/products/42/98/405/SC-LX90/index.html
 

 
markl posted some years back that he felt that you *can* get good sound from an AV receiver if you are prepared to spend enough money - whatever the 'Susano' sounds like with 2 speakers, its massively over-engineered for that role. Pioneer Australia's response to that 'demand' is to offer the 40W per channel A-109, and nothing else. Its like living in Bizarro World. 
 
If you look in the threads on vintage stereo receivers, its pretty clear that the turning point came sometime in the early 80s when manufacturers abandoned the stereo receiver as a quality audiophile product and started churning out mass-market junk.  I still think the stereo receiver concept has a lot going for it, even if its unlikely to make anyone's list of 'high end' kit. 

 

[Grev]

If the definition of high-end is what is proposed here (exclusivity and high price mainly) then I don't want high-end, sounds like an utter miserable place to be in because it sounds like the case of teenagers thinking their 'favourite' indie band that no one has heard of is amazing just because no one knows about them.

 

[obobskivich]

Very well said. 
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If the definition of high-end is what is proposed here (exclusivity and high price mainly) then I don't want high-end, sounds like an utter miserable place to be in because it sounds like the case of teenagers thinking their 'favourite' indie band that no one has heard of is amazing just because no one knows about them.

 
 

 

[DaveBSC]

 
Quote:

markl posted some years back that he felt that you *can* get good sound from an AV receiver if you are prepared to spend enough money - whatever the 'Susano' sounds like with 2 speakers, its massively over-engineered for that role. Pioneer Australia's response to that 'demand' is to offer the 40W per channel A-109, and nothing else. Its like living in Bizarro World. 
 
If you look in the threads on vintage stereo receivers, its pretty clear that the turning point came sometime in the early 80s when manufacturers abandoned the stereo receiver as a quality audiophile product and started churning out mass-market junk.  I still think the stereo receiver concept has a lot going for it, even if its unlikely to make anyone's list of 'high end' kit. 

 
The ICE based Pioneer receivers, like all ICE amps haven't floated my boat. Back when they used to use Mosfet based amps I thought they sounded much better. Particularly the 59TXi (not sure what it was called down under) but it was the last flagship Pioneer receiver not to have a switching amp in it, and it sounded pretty good actually.
 
What is a stereo receiver? It's just an integrated amp with a tuner and sometimes a DAC. Who really needs that? How many audiophiles today are listening to the radio? The integrated amplifier market is stronger than it's ever been. Integrateds used to be the little runts of the amp world, suitable only for entry level systems until one could afford separates. Now there are 75lb+ integrated amps capable of several hundred watts per channel, and they definitely blur some lines and make one wonder whether two boxes and two extra cables are really necessary.
 

 

[DaveBSC]

 
Quote:

If the definition of high-end is what is proposed here (exclusivity and high price mainly) then I don't want high-end, sounds like an utter miserable place to be in because it sounds like the case of teenagers thinking their 'favourite' indie band that no one has heard of is amazing just because no one knows about them.

 
You could make the same case about anything - golf, art, etc. Why would anyone spend thousands of dollars on some sticks to hit a stupid plastic ball, in really ugly pants?
 

 

[MorbidToaster]

Simaudio would be the dream system for me...Love that gear...

 

[Grev]

 
Quote:

 
 
You could make the same case about anything - golf, art, etc. Why would anyone spend thousands of dollars on some sticks to hit a stupid plastic ball, in really ugly pants?
 

 
I don't think you understand.  The act of listening to music (or playing golf) isn't bad, but when you start listening/playing the equipment instead of the intended doesn't bode well with me.  I know some people will pay for extremely high prices for such things which there will always be a market, but the ultimate motive for listening to music is to enjoy the music, not to get that extra 1% of performance while the other people are content and moved on already.

 

[project86]

Great discussion, except for the never ending debate portion. For me, high end is for the most part something that you just know. It either is or it isn't. Unfortunately that is a very subjective thing.... There are brands which I have had bad experiences with, that I don't really consider high end any longer, but most other people do. Likewise, Krell makes some gear in China now, so they are "off the list" for many people, but not me.

Part of the problem is that the high priced side of the market was a very poor seller for a while there. Probably still is compared to the late 90s or so. So companies like Musical Fidelity who once started their range with multi thousand dollar stuff and went up from there, are now also selling V series components for a few hundred bucks a pop. This surely increases their profits while somehow diminishing their high endedness in the eyes of onlookers. It's a very tough thing to be able to capture both ends of the market without tarnishing your reputation in the higher end portion.