[Solan]

Is the Apogee mini-DAC still in production? I have found the FireWire version at $986 and a version with neither FireWire nor USB at $806. I assume the USB version should be somewhere inbetween.

But isn't the USB version produced any more, and if so: why? Is it because the USB version doesn't support 192kHz?

I ask because I've heard bad things about optical connection and jitter, and in the plain version, it seems optical would be the only choice for connecting the mini-DAC to my MacBook Pro.

Why am I looking for USB when there's FireWire? Well, one reason is just in case my Mac breaks down and I have to make do with a PC. The other reason is simple cheapskatery: It's cheaper!

 

[1UP]

Think it was the other way round with USB later/now. There's also one on the FS forum without.

 

[Solan]

I see it: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/fs...ersion-295109/

Seems B&H are less expensive than Sweetwater if I decide to buy new - less by almost $100. Good tip.

The without option is desirable from a price point of view, but the possibility of jitter via optical, and the risk of not being able to use the unit at all if my Mac breaks down indicates against it.

 

[sejarzo]

Last July or so, I got several different stories from Apogee about the Mini-DAC availability from that point forward. They had run out of a particular chip required to produce them and were trying to scrounge up enough to make more at the time. The story kept shifting from the chip being something required in all Apogee Mini series units, to just the Mini-DAC, to the Mini-DAC FireWire, then back to the Mini-DAC USB.

The original version with a computer interface was the USB, and as far as I know that required the user to buy and install the add-in card--the port opening on back was already there on all the units, labeled "USB", and that was prior to there being a FireWire card available. If a user wanted FireWire, I think they just had to put up with the port on the back and the input option labeled as "USB" after installing the FW card.

Sometime around March 2007, there was an announcement from Apogee that appeared to mean they were dropping the USB version in favor of FireWire only as a PC/Mac interface. The rep with whom I spoke couldn't be nailed down as to how long there would be more USB versions made or available.

Solan.......why are you so concerned that using an FW version would be a problem with a PC? Every desktop PC I've bought since 2001 had FireWire ports on the motherboard, and all three notebooks we've bought within the family have FW too.

 

[22906]

To echo sejarzo, don't worry if you can't find USB, just get Firewire, modern PC's come with Firewire.

 

[Solan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Solan.......why are you so concerned that using an FW version would be a problem with a PC? Every desktop PC I've bought since 2001 had FireWire ports on the motherboard, and all three notebooks we've bought within the family have FW too.

My PCs (both home and work) have plenty of USB ports but no FireWire. Well, if no USB version is available, maybe there are transitions USB/FireWire available ... and my main computer still has it all, since it's a MAcBook Pro.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I thought that Apogee only supported Mac Firewire (and not PC Firewire), and I voted for USB because it can be used with as many sources as possible in the future.

However, I find the Mac optical out is very good, and I don't have issues with distortion or noise that people would say were jitter induced. So, I don't feed the Apogee via the USB unless my source doesn't have optical or coax (my iBook). I currently have my CD player connected via coax, and my Macbook connected via optical.

Besides, Apogee has applied anti-jitter technology to the mini-DAC anyway if I understand correctly what Iron_Dreamer has told me, (reclocking/upconverting), similar to the DAC1 and Ultra Micro DAC and others.

 

[Solan]

I checked up on the PC FireWire, since you hinted. The FW manual for the Apogee states the following requirements:

Windows XP

OS: Windows XP SP 2 (Windows 2000 or earlier not supported)
Hardware : 1.5 gig or greater processor

At least 512 megs RAM
FW 400 or FW 800 FireWire ports using a Texas Instruments or Lucent chipset

OS X:

OS: OS X 10.4.7 or higher
Hardware : 1 GHz or greater

At least 512 MB RAM

So it seems a PC can connect as long as it has the right FireWire. Ah ... yes, I forgot about their anti-jitter, their dual clock. Will that ensure that all bits get across OK?

Do Macs or PCs support coaxial? I know it may be a dumb question, but ...

Ah, and I learned the difference between 4-pin and 6-pin FW in the process:



Seems my Mac has one of each, whereas the work PC has two 6-pins. Nada at home, though. So at home I need USB.

But then again, heartening news that Mac optical is good. There exist optical-to-USB units, according to ricmat, so maybe that will help and I can go with the blank version, if the USB version is as discontinued as my search indicates it to be. Hm ... maybe jpelg would agree to selling his unit for 500-550? Then I could buy a FW card later, if the need arose, and come out exactly even with buying a new FW unit. OR USB, if this was what I needed. It would be a shame to buy FireWire, and end up needing USB ...

 

[Solan]

Finally found mini-DAC USB for sale pages, and they all state that the USB option is ... discontinued! Oh well ... it'll be between FW and plain, then.

 

[sejarzo]

Taxes Instruments (TI) Chipset 1394 Firewire 4-Port PCI Controller - Firewire Controllers

Three FireWire ports, and I presume a TI chipset (though maybe there is a chip cloner in China known as "Taxes Instruments", as the page indicates

?)

And it's only $16....don't know what equivalent cards might be available on the other side of the pond, but it sure seems to be a cheap alternative versus monkeying around with optical.

 

[Solan]

Thank you very much, sejarzo. Your info put the finger on the scales for me: I now have a FireWire mini-DAC on its way.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I want to repeat, for others here listening, that the Apogee mini-DAC really improves with an upgraded power supply, like my Sigma 11. I thought it was a bunch of malarky till I heard it myself. My sigma 11 was damaged in shipping, and it took me 2 weeks before I was able to fix it. In the meantime I got used to the sound with the stock power brick. Once I swapped in the Sigma 11 PSU I was amazed at the increased depth, extension and soundstage from the Apogee.

I also have a nice $89 Radio Shack Regulated PSU for laptops that can put out 12-24v in 1v increments, up to 4.5A and 80 watts, and it does an audibly better job than the stock PSU too.

Also, the Apogee mini-DAC is able to squeeze more sound quality out of better interconnects, so you can make a big difference with the cables that you use between the Apogee and your amp (if you you have one). Some people will buy a XLR to RCA adapter, to plug into the male jacks in back, and then run a nice RCA interconnect into their amps if they don't have a balanced amp. I have a Jensen Transformers box, and I run a pair of Neutrik 12" interconnects to the box, which then has RCA out, and I run Anti-Cables IC's from the transformer to my STAX amp.

I hook up a second amp to the 1/8" output on the rear, which has excellent sound quality. I use a $60 silver plated copper mini-RCA cable that "barqy" made for me, and it does a great job feeding my Woo Audio WA6 maxed.

When I want to listen to my balanced HD600, I just unplug the Neutrik interconnects from the Jensen Transformers and connect my APS v3 cable with female XLR. There are jumpers inside to switch the XLR-outputs over to the volume knob, and another set of jumpers to do the same with the 1/8" analog out on the rear. I left the 1/8" as fixed line out, but with variable output it can run headphones or an amp as well.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Lastly, here is a great review on the mini-DAC

apogeedac

 

[Solan]

Damn you, Larry!

I bought the mini-DAC to insure myself against any upgradeitis on the DAC front, and now you tell me that while the unit itself needs no upgrading, there is plenty to be had from upgrading the cables ... expensive ones, too! I have a feeling I'll be buying 10cm of the $750/m ones and run the amp back-to-back with the DAC when I get an amp ...

Thanks also for the sigma-11 tip, which you also gave me via PM. (I really do appreciate your helpfulness, even though my wallet does not.)

1a. Does anyone reading this know where I can get a sigma-11 equivalent for European voltages (220-240)?
1b. How much would it cost?
2. Actually: how much does a plain sigma-11 110V cost? I could always transform 220V to 110V, if push comes to shove.
3. How many amperes does the sigma-11 provide? If I know that, I can possibly ask someone to build a PSU for me that produces as much, or more.

 

[Cankin]

There are many who think Duet is better than MiniDac as either DAC alone or DAC/amp combo, but when the MiniDac with PS upgrade, how do they compare???