[audiobot]

So its either: HD600 ($350) + Apogee Groove ($295) for $399 

                     HD650 ($450) + Apogee Groove ($295) for $499
                     M70X ($299) + Apogee Groove ($295) for $329
 
 
I mainly listen to hiphop and rock (alternative, classic, indie). Which should I choose?

 

[audiobot]

Going to go with the 650+groove deal. 

 

[pearljam50000]

  I was unaware of the deal, combo HD650 and Apogee Groove. They are a good pairing - other amps I have owned simply do not drive these headphones properly:
 

1. AudioQuest DragonFly version 1.2
2. HRT microStreamer
3. Meridian Explorer versions 1 and 2
4. Schiit Fulla

 
I plan at some point in future to listen to and compare against CEntrance and Geek Out. But to my ears, the Groove sounds quite nice!
 
Perhaps the Fulla is an option for those on a budget, but the sound is not at the same level as the Groove. And apparently you'd be on your own trying to find a good deal on the HD650.

Do you feel the amp is powerful enough for the HD650?

 

[sheldaze]

  Do you feel the amp is powerful enough for the HD650?

Yes 

 
I'll give it another serious listen in the near future. From what I recall, it was more than just a synergy based on power. It was as-if the veil had been lifted. I personally found the AKG Q701 a little bright, but necessary to keep around because my HD650 was definitely on the dark and murky side. But when I mated the HD650 with the Apogee Groove, the sound had filled in quite nicely. Bottom line is my Q701 are now on sale, mostly because I found the HD650 quite satisfying when paired with the proper amp, such as the Apogee Groove.

 

[Eggtuary]

Has anyone compared the HD600 and HD650 through the Groove?
 
Some of the earlier posts in this thread indicate that the Apogee Groove's constant current has the effect of flattening the frequency response curve.  This makes me think that it would therefore reduce differences between headphones that are already pretty similar.  If that's true, then would it make the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 even more similar than through a normal amp?  I ask because Adorama is offering the Groove effectively free with either of these two great Senn headphones.  Many people have struggled over the years to hear a lot of difference between the HD600 and HD650, anyway, and question whether the HD650 is worth the extra $100.  But if the Groove levels the playing field that much more between these headphones, then maybe it makes more sense than ever to go with the HD600 over the 650?
 
Unfortunately, I don't have a good audio store in my area where I can compare the HD600 and HD650.  But I've listened to the HD558 and HD598.  I liked them both, but wanted something that could deliver a fuller sound.  All the reviews I read indicate that the 600 and 650 would fit this role perfectly, and it really just comes down to relatively minor preferences when choosing between them.
 
Thoughts?

 

[monkey4054]

I'm really close to buying the Groove, however I'm wondering how it stacks up to others like:
 
Dragonfly, Explorer, HA-2, Dacport etc..
 
I would be looking to use it on my Windows PC, with my Fidelio X2s. Would the Groove be worth it for me??
 
Also, does anyone have any experience with the Audioquest Jitter Bug? Would it help to improve the sound of the Groove if I bought it too? Or is it pointless?

 

[sheldaze]

  I'm really close to buying the Groove, however I'm wondering how it stacks up to others like:
 
Dragonfly, Explorer, HA-2, Dacport etc..
 
I would be looking to use it on my Windows PC, with my Fidelio X2s. Would the Groove be worth it for me??
 
Also, does anyone have any experience with the Audioquest Jitter Bug? Would it help to improve the sound of the Groove if I bought it too? Or is it pointless?

AudioQuest DragonFly version 1.2 was my first DAC/AMP. I loved it, but I do feel it has been surpassed in quality by everything that I have heard since. It's still a good solid amp, and you'll have many wonderful hours of pleasure listening to it. Try to find it used - it would be your cheapest option.
 
Explorer - not sure if you're talking version 1 or 2. Version 1 was an improvement over the DragonFly, but it wasn't a vast improvement. Also note that it has a relatively high output impedance, which did not mate well with a lot of my headphones. Your Philips Fidelio X2 headphones have a relatively low input impedance, so I don't think it'll be a good match. I like the Explorer2, though I personally use it today more for its DAC capabilities than for its amplifier capabilities. Your ears and gear may vary - my closest headphone to your X2, in terms of being low impedance and relative ease to drive, is Denon AH-D2000. And for this, I prefer the sound of my HRT microStreamer more than Explorer2. But don't forget that Explorer2 and most other options on your list are around $300, about twice the street cost of the DragonFly.
 
I've read good reviews of the Oppo HA-2. It is a lot of product for the money. Try going through their thread. The link below is a good starting point, where it is compared favorably with the LH Labs GeekOut:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755879/oppo-ha-2-portable-headphone-amplifier-dac-discussion-thread/90#post_11354475
 
I'm in the process of trying to acquire the other options on your list, but I've not heard any of these as yet:
 

1. AudioQuest JitterBug
2. CEntrance DacPort HD
3. LH Labs Geek Out V2 (possibly similar sound as the HA-2)

 
I've told other people I really like the Apogee Grove - and I do! Only I prefer its sound when it's used to drive something that either takes a larger voltage swing due to a high input impedance (i.e. Sennheiser HD650) or something that takes a lot of current, such as a planar headphone. While I don't think it'll do any harm to your X2, I don't think it'll shine with them either. If you're planning to continue to try other headphones, you might consider the Groove. I don't have the X2 (or your ears 

) but for me with my easy to drive Denon, I preferred the microStreamer.

 

[monkey4054]

  AudioQuest DragonFly version 1.2 was my first DAC/AMP. I loved it, but I do feel it has been surpassed in quality by everything that I have heard since. It's still a good solid amp, and you'll have many wonderful hours of pleasure listening to it. Try to find it used - it would be your cheapest option.
 
Explorer - not sure if you're talking version 1 or 2. Version 1 was an improvement over the DragonFly, but it wasn't a vast improvement. Also note that it has a relatively high output impedance, which did not mate well with a lot of my headphones. Your Philips Fidelio X2 headphones have a relatively low input impedance, so I don't think it'll be a good match. I like the Explorer2, though I personally use it today more for its DAC capabilities than for its amplifier capabilities. Your ears and gear may vary - my closest headphone to your X2, in terms of being low impedance and relative ease to drive, is Denon AH-D2000. And for this, I prefer the sound of my HRT microStreamer more than Explorer2. But don't forget that Explorer2 and most other options on your list are around $300, about twice the street cost of the DragonFly.
 
I've read good reviews of the Oppo HA-2. It is a lot of product for the money. Try going through their thread. The link below is a good starting point, where it is compared favorably with the LH Labs GeekOut:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755879/oppo-ha-2-portable-headphone-amplifier-dac-discussion-thread/90#post_11354475
 
I'm in the process of trying to acquire the other options on your list, but I've not heard any of these as yet:
 

1. AudioQuest JitterBug
2. CEntrance DacPort HD
3. LH Labs Geek Out V2 (possibly similar sound as the HA-2)

 
I've told other people I really like the Apogee Grove - and I do! Only I prefer its sound when it's used to drive something that either takes a larger voltage swing due to a high input impedance (i.e. Sennheiser HD650) or something that takes a lot of current, such as a planar headphone. While I don't think it'll do any harm to your X2, I don't think it'll shine with them either. If you're planning to continue to try other headphones, you might consider the Groove. I don't have the X2 (or your ears 

) but for me with my easy to drive Denon, I preferred the microStreamer.

 
Hi, thanks for your reply.
 
If I did get the Groove it would definitely be an investment as I will continue to try different, harder to drive headphones in the future. How would you describe the sound of the Microstreamer compared to the Groove? Does it really sound better with easier to drive headphones? I've  been tossing up between the Groove, Microstreamer, Dragonfly and maybe and O2/ODAC.
 
I've also heard really good things about the Jitter Bug, but I'm still not convinced of how much it will improve the sound. It costs $80 here in Aus and I'm not sure its worth it. 

 

[sheldaze]

   
Hi, thanks for your reply.
 
If I did get the Groove it would definitely be an investment as I will continue to try different, harder to drive headphones in the future. How would you describe the sound of the Microstreamer compared to the Groove? Does it really sound better with easier to drive headphones? I've  been tossing up between the Groove, Microstreamer, Dragonfly and maybe and O2/ODAC.
 
I've also heard really good things about the Jitter Bug, but I'm still not convinced of how much it will improve the sound. It costs $80 here in Aus and I'm not sure its worth it. 

Well, if you're not looking for portability, the O2/ODAC opens up a whole new power source - A/C 

 
Whereas I think (from my listening experiments) that I prefer one or another USB/DAC/AMP based on the headphones, once you have a good solid-state amp with A/C power, you can really play with many different headphones. This may be the way to go if you're trying to keep one box to be used to experiment. The O2/ODAC are still well-regarded - do these allow for an external source, such as an upgraded DAC or CD player? The new Schiit Uber stack (I have not heard the Magni 2 Uber or Modi 2 Uber) is also getting good reviews. I personally settled on a JDS Labs Element, from which I will drive any of my headphones regardless of how hard or easy they are to drive.There is still to me a significant difference between a desktop rig and a rig powered only by USB. But I'm not going to take my desktop rig into the sunroom or on a road trip to the beach 

 

[monkey4054]

  Well, if you're not looking for portability, the O2/ODAC opens up a whole new power source - A/C 

 
Whereas I think (from my listening experiments) that I prefer one or another USB/DAC/AMP based on the headphones, once you have a good solid-state amp with A/C power, you can really play with many different headphones. This may be the way to go if you're trying to keep one box to be used to experiment. The O2/ODAC are still well-regarded - do these allow for an external source, such as an upgraded DAC or CD player? The new Schiit Uber stack (I have not heard the Magni 2 Uber or Modi 2 Uber) is also getting good reviews. I personally settled on a JDS Labs Element, from which I will drive any of my headphones regardless of how hard or easy they are to drive.There is still to me a significant difference between a desktop rig and a rig powered only by USB. But I'm not going to take my desktop rig into the sunroom or on a road trip to the beach 

Nice! I was also considering buying The Element as well, but I wasn't sure I could justify it. If  I was only looking to buy something as a fixed, desk DAC/AMP, would you take something like the Element or the O2/ODAC over the Microstreamer/Groove/Explorer. Is there a difference in sound quality or is it just a case of different sound signatures and an increase in amping power? 

 

[sheldaze]

  Nice! I was also considering buying The Element as well, but I wasn't sure I could justify it. If  I was only looking to buy something as a fixed, desk DAC/AMP, would you take something like the Element or the O2/ODAC over the Microstreamer/Groove/Explorer. Is there a difference in sound quality or is it just a case of different sound signatures and an increase in amping power? 

Fixed, desktop, rig, whatever you call it is better on all measures than a portable 

 
I think the reason is you've got space for bigger, better components, and space allows for reduced electrical interference between the components and better shielding, and you just cannot beat the A/C power source. Perhaps there are a few portable rigs that rely on battery power, but you'd be paying more to have it done right. Some people have spoken highly of the CEntrance HiFI-M8. But even then, when they return to their high end desktop system...it's like when I listen to the Groove, my ears tell me this is really good. But then when I return to the desktop setup, it's just better. I haven't heard all the best USB options, as yet, but desktop still has the ones I've heard beat.

 

[monkey4054]

  Fixed, desktop, rig, whatever you call it is better on all measures than a portable 

 
I think the reason is you've got space for bigger, better components, and space allows for reduced electrical interference between the components and better shielding, and you just cannot beat the A/C power source. Perhaps there are a few portable rigs that rely on battery power, but you'd be paying more to have it done right. Some people have spoken highly of the CEntrance HiFI-M8. But even then, when they return to their high end desktop system...it's like when I listen to the Groove, my ears tell me this is really good. But then when I return to the desktop setup, it's just better. I haven't heard all the best USB options, as yet, but desktop still has the ones I've heard beat.

 
Ok, great! Looks like I'll be going for something like the O2/ODAC or The Element. Have you heard both of these? Is the Element worth the price? If it is, then I'll definitely get it, it will be a future investment of course.

 

[sheldaze]

   
Ok, great! Looks like I'll be going for something like the O2/ODAC or The Element. Have you heard both of these? Is the Element worth the price? If it is, then I'll definitely get it, it will be a future investment of course.

Nope - done a lot of lurking and reading, as I suspect you're doing 

 
I'm starting to listen to some planar magnetic headphones, with both low impedance (low relative to HD650) and high current requirements. Whereas my tubes were okay, I had to get a solid state amplifier to drive these new headphones. After my (Element) amp purchase, someone suggested I compare it to my existing (tube) amps, and whooo-boy! I still suspect the upgrades are more visual than anything - large knob on the top, and only the headphone jack on the front. It's just clean looking and a smooth large knob provides for easy volume control. I'm happy with the price, but it is a little expensive considering I don't use the internal DAC.

 

[glitchesnetwork]

  Before the software takes exclusive rights to your DAC, it must first show up in your system preferences sound output and in your midi controller right? That's the issue I'm having. I contacted Apogee and the conversation ended with them suggesting the groove I have might be slightly defected as I should not be having this issue. I'm in the process of exchanging this one now for a new one. (I hope it gets here before my new headphones do 

 )

 
Update: Just received my replacement Apogee Groove and this one is making a stable connection each time I replug it back in. My last one was clearly defective. I didn't realize how much I really missed this little amp/dac because now my music sounds full again!

 

[blse59]

I just got my Groove and I have to say the sound is great! One question though - I'm running this on Windows 10 using the latest 3.0 drivers from Apogee's website. I installed the drivers and plugged in my Groove and that was it. Everything was left at default. Is this all I need for it to be capable to play back 24-bit/192kHz files or do I need to fiddle with something in the settings? I was hoping the LED would light a different color when playing hi-res files so I know it's working but it's still lighting green.