APC S10, S15, S20 Owners?

[Welly Wu]

http://www.apcav.com

Does anyone here own the American Power Conversion S10, S15, or S20 units? I plan on purchasing either the S15 or S20 depending upon the pricing and availability through authorized dealers (like TTVJ soon). They are fairly expensive, but they do provide an incredible amount of electrical power protection and conditioning. I auditioned the S15 and while I did not find it to improve the sound quality, it made a clear difference when I shut off the electricity to my home and powered my expensive electronics and even my HP desktop PC for over 10+ minutes. That was something to behold.

My AV system (and later on...computer) needs are growing and I need something like the S15 to keep up with my very high demands. This looks to be it.

Again, if anyone owns any of these units or plans to do so, then share your opinions. I'll research and post my findings and others later on.

 

[Dimitris]

Welly I think you should check audiogon. They have some threads about these. They are quite expensive and more likely to be used by speaker freaks!

 

[Welly Wu]

In a few years, I plan to purchase a second home and buy the Meridian DSP8000 loudspeakers. The APC S15 or S20 will be used to control electrical power to that future high fidelity loudspeaker system. Thank you for your help.

 

[Dr.J]

Look on Ebay ... type in UPS or APC or both; you'll find plenty to choose from.

I'm debating about this, myself. Some AV installers are not keen on them and one friend, that works in the television industry, said they're made for dedicated server environments, not for home audio.

So, I'm still unsure.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

John

 

[Welly Wu]

Which APC UPS models are you talking about? The S10, S15, and S20 are designed for high end audio and video systems and the S15 is currently on Stereophile's 2007 Recommended Components list and Kal Rubinson owns two in his system. The Home Theater Group, where I bought my Ayre Acoustics CX-7 Evolution, now carries the new APC S lineup and recommended them for all of their custom installation services. They even recommend it over some other brands like Equitech, Furman, or ExactPower.

TTVJ expects to carry the APC S lineup soon.

 

[Dimitris]

Is there another cheap way to protect your equipment from electricity surcharges? I am not interested in improving sound quality just protecting the equipment.

 

[Dr.J]

I was referring to the units used professionally, in server environments. I’m not familiar with these dedicated audio units, but the model I was looking at has two 5” computer fans that run continuously. My aim was to clean up my power supply and insulate it from any ground loops, via a UPS. I’ve read conflicting views on the use of this equipment.

Another problem is that if I add all my equipment together, at max draw, it approaches 30amps and so a 3000va unit is not out of line, yet enormous in size. The batteries for these things are also not cheap.

If you look in the list, below, you’ll discover a thread: “Power Conditioners;” have a read.

Many professional, AV installers recommend these:

http://www.surgex.com/products.html

,but, of course, they do not fully serve the purpose you’re after.

I, personally, don’t know what to do, given the conflicting information I’ve come across.

Not trying to dissuade you, only sharing my experience.

John

 

[Welly Wu]

Dr.J:

Sorry, but I'm typing while working and the workload can be high here. No offense to you.

Dimitrius:

Yes, there are the far less expensive APC H which are based off of the S but do not have backup UPS battery. Very affordable at well under $400 USD and less. Virtually identical except of course the maximum power loads and fancy features. Some of the J models have battery backup and are priced between the H and S models. Good bang for the buck items. The H and J models are fairly widely available, but the S model is available through authorized distributers and it's hard to get as an end customer.

I await Todd's reply to my inquiry.

 

[Dr.J]

Alrighty,

here ye go, from a professional AV installer, from the big apple:

John,

Yes, UPS systems do clean up the power very well when converting AC to DC then back again, but again most filtration systems on good surge/spike protection system will do the same thing. As per the two comments on UPS systems improving their system performance, I am quite sure in a blindfolded test, they wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. Except that the UPS is louder (as you noted).

In regards to providing a constant 120VAC to an amplifier, this would be a valid point if the amplifier used a regulated power supply that is fixed @ 120VAC. However, almost all power supplies for amplifiers use transformers that have multiple taps on them that will draw current based upon what the incoming voltage is (usually between 100VAC & 125VAC).

The problem with hooking up a good amplifier to a UPS is that unless the UPS is capable of allowing sufficient current draw thru it (in large bursts), the amplifier will react just like it does without a UPS. Remember, these UPS systems are not car batteries nor do they have capacitors to allow quick discharges of large current without effecting other systems.

Also, most high capacity UPS systems don’t have great surge/spike protection. The APC 3000VAC unit has good, but not great protection and is not impervious to lightning.

In the end, unless your voltage is down around 100 to 107 volts ac, then I would stick with an item like the Surge-X.

There are other items to discuss in regards to the above, but on a side note I have a friend who designs amplifiers for a major electronics company and his golden rule is to always allow amplifiers to run with with as little resistance between them and the power grid, placing a UPS in between the two is just not something he would ever do (and he has tested this with bench equpment).

Feel free to ask any other questions if you like.

Regards,

 

[Welly Wu]

I'm still doing research on power conditioners, regenerators, and battery backup units including computer, pro grade, and high end audio brands. So far, the APC S, H, and J units are very unique in their technologies and price points. They pretty much do everything except full power regeneration (which can cost a small fortune of which I am not really interested in paying premium dollar for right now) and they protect almost every electrical device you can think of for much lower costs than boutique brands. Plus, you can easily shop for new units well under MSRP if you search hard. Voltage regulation, surge protection, battery backup, overload protection, under power sags, sudden all on power burst protection, selective power up, PC/MAC software compatibility, and well, for me the biggie is this: tens of thousands of dollars of warranty protection. The APC S15 has a two year warranty, unlimited lifetime warranty, CSA & UL certification, and up to $25,000 USD guarantee warranty protection.

Sorry, I'm still working and typing.

 

[Welly Wu]

Dr.J:

Download and read the documentation on the APC AV website for the S20.

92V to 142V input operating between 47 - 63Hz and rated to 12 amps which will cut off at 15 amps with up to 1440 VA and 1250 watt maximum. It has up to 4080 Joules of maximum surge rating; nothing is impervious to a direct lightning strike and my system is always powered off during thunder or lightning storms. The Meridian DSP8000s are 20VA idle and 900VA at maximum draw and have up to 650 watts at maximum SPL. The 808i only draws 25 watts and less than 5 watts idle. The 5910ci is 80 watts and less than 5 watts idle.

S20 should be good enough!

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu /img/forum/go_quote.gif In a few years, I plan to purchase a second home and buy the Meridian DSP8000 loudspeakers.

With the 808i that'd be over $50,000 worth of Meridian. I'd ask Meridian what would be best to use. I wonder if they say plug it into the wall.

 

[Welly Wu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif With the 808i that'd be over $50,000 worth of Meridian. I'd ask Meridian what would be best to use. I wonder if they say plug it into the wall.

Actually...$71,000.00 USD excluding shipping and handling fees along with taxes.

I already contacted Meridian America. While they recommend running dedicated power outlets to my future Meridian 808i/DSP8000 system, they also said that it is really comes down to both the end customer and/or the custom installer's preferences with regard to the installation of power conditioners, regenerators, or UPS systems. I told them point blank over the telephone that I won't drop that kind of money with no form of electrical power protection system(s) and both the customer service representative and engineer concurred with me.

Considering the costs that I am willing to pay for my Meridian system, I think it is prudent to add in the APC S20 even if it means paying a penalty in terms of sound quality [even if such things are really audible or not]. Hate to sound obvious, but the more I spend, the more I have to protect.

What if a brownout occurs? What if a power sag occurs? What if a power spike occurs? What if power is lost and my entire Meridian, headphone, computer, and AV system get turned on all at the same time when power is restored? What if I need to turn off everything, but I am not at home? What if I need to make sure everything is still turned off?

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I already contacted Meridian America. While they recommend running dedicated power outlets to my future Meridian 808i/DSP8000 system, they also said that it is really comes down to both the end customer and/or the custom installer's preferences with regard to the installation of power conditioners, regenerators, or UPS systems. I told them point blank over the telephone that I won't drop that kind of money with no form of electrical power protection system(s) and both the customer service representative and engineer concurred with me.

That's cool. Yes I surely understand wanting to protect that sort of investment and I'd be researching the options as well. I'd also look into insurance that covers even a swarm of radioactive locusts. The peace of mind would be worth $20-$40? a month. I had this for some photography equipment long ago- if I smashed the stuff on purpose I was still covered.

 

[Welly Wu]