Anyone here into locks?

May 1, 2003 at 8:07 PM Post #16 of 30
Guardian - actually, that safe will be less secure than a proper floor safe. Not only are wall safes almost always constructed MUCH less securely than floor safes (thinner walls, little or no drill resistance, and no relockers), but that fancy digital lock can be opened using nothing more than some UV ink or powder. (a prospective burglar marks each key with UV ink and comes back in a month or two. Using a UV light it's possible to see which numbers had the ink rubbed off, and from there it's just a matter of trying permutations.) A good, UL-rated floor safe will have hard plate (which is extremely difficult to drill through and can only be penetrated with special bits), relockers (which prevent the safe from being opened in the event that you try to open it without knowing EXACTLY where to drill), proper UL Group 2 or Group 1 locks (Group 2 are slightly less secure and can be manipulated in about an hour and a half or two by a very skilled technician who will charge you about $300; using an autodialer the process takes a few days. Group 1 locks take at least 20 hours to be manually manipulated, though they are not as resistant to autodialling. Digital locks do not have any of these vulnerabilities, though this can be a disadvantage if you forget the combination! Burglars as a rule generally don't manipulate locks, they'll either drill or give up. Unless you're a diamond merchant...)

Pushbutton locks such as these: http://www.nokey.com/unheavdutkno1.html
can be manipulated without tools, though the process is a bit more time consuming than picking pin-tumbler locks. (it basically boils down to the fact that the first number in the combination has more resistance to pushing than the next, and after the first number's pushed then the next one has more resistance... though I believe you may have to apply torque or something; I've never done it)
 
May 1, 2003 at 8:25 PM Post #17 of 30
"Medeco locks can and have been picked" What? this is news to me. I read some heresay nce that said a master locksmith sat there for several hours and actually just got it by accident. Show me proof I do not believe you before you can even set the pins they have to have them orientated propperly for that little trap door style bar thing moves (if you have seen a medeco you know what I mean) I read that they could be stroked lightly beforehand to orient the pins but I think this was found to just be a speculation. Seriously I want proof. Besides that I am really into lock picking. Now I have a world of puzzles that awates me. Also this whole thing about it being illegal and used for malicious purposes is false. what kind of burgler is gunna take the time to learn this time consuming skill when a swift kick with a boot or crowbar is much easier. If they are gunna steal from you they dont care if they dammage yer stuff.
 
May 1, 2003 at 11:54 PM Post #18 of 30
Pick up a book called "Modern High Security Locks" by Steven Hampton.

Also, people, DO NOT SEND ME PMs ABOUT LOCKS, PLEASE. Either send me an email or post it to the Locksports mailing list referenced above! For the edification of other members, I'll also post educational replies in thread, to save others the hassle (unless anyone minds).
 
May 2, 2003 at 12:03 AM Post #19 of 30
About the possiblity of opening the combination locks on safes(and a few things I forgot to mention in the PM): It is NOT easy. To be able to do it reliably takes years of training and practice! A book called "Techniques of Safecracking" (Wayne Yeager, pub. Loompanics) gives a general idea of the principle, but for a manual that I'd learn from, you can't beat the LSS+/Public CD sold by Security.org/Marc Weber Tobias. Note that you'll want to CALL HIM BEFORE BUYING as it's a lot of $$$.


Also, a longtime safe technician has written a manual on safe opening and is selling it via eBay... at $15, it's a helluva lot cheaper than LSS+ but I haven't read it so I can't guarantee anything:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=11906

An eBay search for "locksmith safe" turns up lots of cool stuff.
 
May 2, 2003 at 12:44 AM Post #20 of 30
I just realised the locks on our dorm doors are medeco locks. That probably explains the $60 they charge to get them rekeyed if you lose a key.
 
May 2, 2003 at 1:09 AM Post #21 of 30
heh... that reminds me. when i was dorming, we had the simplex push button locks on the rooms, as well as pin and tumber locks. people would just use the push button locks so they wouldn't have to bring their keys. one day as a prank, we picked a few of those push button locks and changed the combinations.
 
May 2, 2003 at 3:59 AM Post #22 of 30
Regarding a question about tools: I use tools that I bought at a local spy-shop ages and ages ago, though it's certainly possible to make your own! Eddie the Wire wrote a book called "Home Workshop Professional Lock Tools" (or some combination of those words) which is supposed to be quite good [though I haven't read it], and Steven Hampton covers the topic somewhat in Secrets of Lock Picking and Advanced Secrets of Lock Picking (or something similar). If you're going to buy a lock book, though, I have to say I don't really like Hampton's style (he's QUITE egotistical/self-centered/braggy/etc) and SLP doesn't go into nearly as much depth as Eddie the Wire's Complete Guide to Lock Picking. Also, for general lock stuff and some good picking advice, the Complete Guide to Locks and Locksmithing is apparently very good, and it is one of the few texts that goes into Simplex (pushbutton) lock picking. (though if you can get a Simplex lock to disassemble, Hobbit wrote an excellent treatise on the topic that's floating around on the internet... reportedly the best way to do things is to open a Simplex lock on the table in front of you and read Hobbit's text).
 
May 3, 2003 at 9:04 PM Post #24 of 30
From what I've heard and read and seen, Medeco locks are an excellent choice for security. Rarely will you ever been in a situation where a lock needs to resist picking for more than two hours by a determined, well-trained, well-equipped, and well-paid professional. (if you ARE in such a situation, then locks might be your last worry) In fact, the local locksmith uses Medeco locks on his shop.

What cylinder would I use in my home? To be honest, I don't really know. The advantage to a standard pin-tumbler is that it's cheap and easy to pick if you get locked out; on the other hand, it's not resistant at all to forced attacks and it's easy to pick. A very high security Evva or Medeco or Abloy is expensive and almost impossible to pick (not even a locksmith will be able to help you if you get locked out - you'll be paying for a new door or window!) and most are very secure against forced attacks (drilling, etc), yet depending on where you live, the lock might never see an attempt at surreptitious entry and your money would have been better spent on a good alarm system (there's no substitute for a good alarm system, like from ADT or similar). It's really a balancing act.
 
May 4, 2003 at 4:51 AM Post #25 of 30
i used to use a pick set i made out of old hacksaw blades and a tension wrench made out of an allen wrench with a grinded tip.
 
May 4, 2003 at 5:46 PM Post #27 of 30
Gariver - also look at Kaba and the Chicago Tubar lock.

And do yourself a favor and get a copy of "Locks, Safes, and Security" by Marc Weber Tobias, either from Amazon or through interlibrary loan (it's a $200 book, so the latter would probably be more cost-effective.). It goes into exhastive detail over nearly every lock design availible today, and also talks about the security of each design.
 
May 4, 2003 at 7:50 PM Post #29 of 30
Off topic, but I was laughing at this advert in one of those useless gadget catalogues. It was an electronic safe, which claimed "X million combinations mean ultimate security... ...With handy carry handle"
biggrin.gif
 
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