Anybody Have Anything BAD to say About the Eastound E5? (Help me decide on a new CDP)

[Geist]

I figured the title would get me a few views.

The upgrade bug has gotten to me, and I've decided to change my system. I currently own the EE Minimax, which I adore, but I know I can do better. I have heard nothing but praise for the E5 AKA "Giant Killer", which has piqued my interest for awhile now, even though, I must admit, I get skeptical sometimes just because the praise is so positive that I almost find myself thinking it must be too good to be true.

Anyways, after a ton of research, I have decided on the following options:

1) Upgrade the Minimax via Underwood/Parts ConneXion and then purchase a seperate head amp as opposed to using the current stock amp the player comes with (actually, I will be purchasing a head amp regardless of which player I choose).

2) Sell the Minimax and purchase an either a stock E5 or, possibly, with the power supply upgrade available at Reference Audio Mods, if I am feeling sassy.

3) Sell the MM and purchase a Level 2 modded Music Hall CD-25.2 from Underwood.

Right now, I am leaning towards options 1 and 2, unsure of which to choose. I know a few people have listened to both players, and would love their input. Also, if there is anybody out there who has had a chance to hear a modded Minimax or a CD-25.2 please share your thoughts. From the site, the modded MM (and CD-25.2) is a massive improvement but of course, this is just the hype from the modders themselves. I have a feeling even a heavily modded CD-25.2 would be a step down from both the Eastound and the Minimax, but if anybody can tell me otherwise please share.

It seems that purchasing the E5 is the cheapest solution of the three by far. While money isn't the sole deciding factor, if it does turn out that the E5 is the best option then it's even more of a bonus.

Given the nature of the CDP's I want (modded, or imported) I can't really test any out so your advice will be extremely helpful.

BTW I will be using the AKG 701's (when I finally get them) and either a tube amp (if the system I get is SS) or a SS amp (if I decide to stick with the Minimax).

 

[omedon]

It doesn't play DVD-A

The E5 looks like a terrific player. I was suffering some serious envy a while back when everyone was jumping on the cattylink train. I had just plunked down some serious cash for a modified HD-841. However I feel a lot better about it now. DVD-A is a pretty sweet feature. Comercial DVD-A releases are few and far between but when they are done well they are likely a bigger improvement in sound than I imagine the E5 could be.

However the real benefit of DVD-A lies in music downloaded from the net. Concerts that would take up 2 or 3 CD's can be placed onto a single DVD in redbook or better quaility. The music is seamless and I don't have to get up to change cd's. Also more and more live music is being recorded in 24-bits and showing up on the internet music archive which is a nice plus.

Ideally though I think I would prefer to have a E5 as my primary player and an unmodified Samsung (which still sounds pretty good) as a secondary player to play DVD-A. Wouldn't cost very much more money in the end.

 

[DigiPete]

Look into SACDmods.com as another modding source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geist I figured the title would get me a few views. The upgrade bug has gotten to me, and I've decided to change my system. I currently own the EE Minimax, which I adore, but I know I can do better. I have heard nothing but praise for the E5 AKA "Giant Killer", which has piqued my interest for awhile now, even though, I must admit, I get skeptical sometimes just because the praise is so positive that I almost find myself thinking it must be too good to be true. Anyways, after a ton of research, I have decided on the following options: 1) Upgrade the Minimax via Underwood/Parts ConneXion and then purchase a seperate head amp as opposed to using the current stock amp the player comes with (actually, I will be purchasing a head amp regardless of which player I choose). 2) Sell the Minimax and purchase an either a stock E5 or, possibly, with the power supply upgrade available at Reference Audio Mods, if I am feeling sassy. 3) Sell the MM and purchase a Level 2 modded Music Hall CD-25.2 from Underwood. Right now, I am leaning towards options 1 and 2, unsure of which to choose. I know a few people have listened to both players, and would love their input. Also, if there is anybody out there who has had a chance to hear a modded Minimax or a CD-25.2 please share your thoughts. From the site, the modded MM (and CD-25.2) is a massive improvement but of course, this is just the hype from the modders themselves. I have a feeling even a heavily modded CD-25.2 would be a step down from both the Eastound and the Minimax, but if anybody can tell me otherwise please share. It seems that purchasing the E5 is the cheapest solution of the three by far. While money isn't the sole deciding factor, if it does turn out that the E5 is the best option then it's even more of a bonus. Given the nature of the CDP's I want (modded, or imported) I can't really test any out so your advice will be extremely helpful. BTW I will be using the AKG 701's (when I finally get them) and either a tube amp (if the system I get is SS) or a SS amp (if I decide to stick with the Minimax).

 

[KenW]

I have a SACDmodded Sony SCD-555ES as well as the E5 and while the E5 won't get me to move my 555 anytime soon, it's amazing for the price. Quite the bang for the buck IMO. Build quality is superb although there are some folks who've had an issue with the transport(I think). A search will turn up the relevant threads. No problems with mine and of late, it's been getting a workout every night for a couple of hours. My biggest problem is which source to listen to!

 

[raisin]

Sell the minimax, get the E5 (the train is still taking passengers) and enjoy it for what it is. You can always send it in for mods later.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geist 1) Upgrade the Minimax via Underwood/Parts ConneXion and then purchase a seperate head amp as opposed to using the current stock amp the player comes with (actually, I will be purchasing a head amp regardless of which player I choose).

I'll go against the grain and say that because you already own the MiniMax why not send it in and get it modded to see what kind of performance you can squeeze out of it. Parts ConneXion told me way back that they could also mod the headphone section as well which may or may not be an option for you.

 

[tkam]

Another thing to consider or at least remember is that the MiniMax and E5 sound very very different. The minimax is a really smooth, liquid and warm sounding cdp while the E5 is a resolving, airy, and open sounding cdp.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenW I have a SACDmodded Sony SCD-555ES as well as the E5 and while the E5 won't get me to move my 555 anytime soon, it's amazing for the price. Quite the bang for the buck IMO. Build quality is superb although there are some folks who've had an issue with the transport(I think). A search will turn up the relevant threads. No problems with mine and of late, it's been getting a workout every night for a couple of hours. My biggest problem is which source to listen to!

I agree with Ken .... my sacdmods 555es is better sounding but the E5 is an excellent value.

I also agree the transport problems are a potential worry. I have three E5's. One did have a transport problem that required replacement and I have one acting flaky now.

But these players are so well built otherwise and so good sounding for the money that it's still worth the gamble to buy one .... IMO.

 

[Geist]

Thanks for the replies.

I've heard of SACDmods but never really lookied into them seeing as how I don't have much interest in the other formats besides CD.

As for the different sound signatures of the two players - for sure I realized that and it's odd, because up until the Minimax I always prefered and more neutral, clean, detailed sound as opposed to a silky, "tubey" sound, but I really liked the all-in-one factor of the Minimax, and the sound wasn't so tubey that it turned me off...though I suspect my true preference might still lie with a more detailed sounding source with a tube amp to give it some warmth - this is the main reason why I haven't already modded the Minimax as Elnero suggested.

As for the E5 build quality, I have seen a few problems regarding the transport and remotes, etc...it does make me question the Eastound a bit. I suppose just because the player uses higher-end components that doesn't automatically translate to higher-end reliability.

Anybody have any impressions on the CD-25.2, modded or otherwise?

 

[drarthurwells]

Several Minimax owners have sold their Minimax and bought the E5 after hearing the E5.

No E5 owner has ever sold their E5 and bought the Minimax after hearing the Minimax.

All CDP have transport problems at times - lasers sometimes fail. The Philips 1202 transport and laser is very relaible, low cost, and can be replaced by the user. The E5 is more reliable than most CDPs.

I fix E5s for free labor if you ever have any problem and Cattylink supplies me parts for those under the one year warranty.

The only complaint I have about the E5 is that it costs so little. I would feel better if I had paid $3000 for it - the more you pay the better the sound.

 

[Geist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Several Minimax owners have sold their Minimax and bought the E5 after hearing the E5. No E5 owner has ever sold their E5 and bought the Minimax after hearing the Minimax.

I'd love to know who they are (if they are users here) so I can read their comments...I remember seeing a Minimax owner (or two, perhaps) who heard both players but I don't remember what they said. Their thoughts would be invaluable.

Quote:

All CDP have transport problems at times - lasers sometimes fail. The Philips 1202 transport and laser is very relaible, low cost, and can be replaced by the user. The E5 is more reliable than most CDPs.

Judging by the comments here, the E5 seems to have a slightly high failure rate for the transports, when compared to other CDP's. And these aren't just people who are trashing the E5 because they want to damage the rep, because most of the complainees that I've seen are still 100% Eastsound supporters...

I am not suggesting the E5 is a lemon by any stretch of the imagination - all electronic devices will have problems. If occasional transport failure on a few models is the worst problem the Eastsound encounteres I'd say that's still pretty impressive.

Quote:

I fix E5s for free labor if you ever have any problem and Cattylink supplies me parts for those under the one year warranty.

Well, that is a bonus for sure. Why free labour though? I'm just curious...usually people don't do nice things for free, especially time-consuming things like repairs...or maybe I'm just too cynical.

Quote:

The only complaint I have about the E5 is that it costs so little. I would feel better if I had paid $3000 for it - the more you pay the better the sound.

Now you're just sounding like you're trying to sell me something.

 

[rocktboy]

I have heard the EE minimax with some $450 AT phones (can't remember the model, it just has a price tag on it) at an audio show. I have to say I really like the sound a lot. I didn't get to listen to any familiar music material so I really couldn't compare the sound to my E5. I am using my E5 with either a Jasmine t-200 tube amp or a headroom little. I like the tube sound (2nd order harmonic distortion sure makes the vocals sound better than real) alot even though it rolls off the highs (perfect match for the HF-1) and lows and doesn't have the bass control of the headroom little.

To answer your question, I think all 3 of your choices are valid.
From my understanding of cd player mods, most of them consists of:

1. clock upgrade
2. analog output section upgrade
3. DC power supply filtering upgrade

You can take pretty much ANY CD player and if you perform the above 3 upgrades they will all pretty much sound alike!

 

[drarthurwells]

Art: Several Minimax owners have sold their Minimax and bought the E5 after hearing the E5.

No E5 owner has ever sold their E5 and bought the Minimax after hearing the Minimax.


Geist: I'd love to know who they are (if they are users here) so I can read their comments...I remember seeing a Minimax owner (or two, perhaps) who heard both players but I don't remember what they said. Their thoughts would be invaluable.

Sure. Owners posting here, who have had experience with both, and ended up with the E5 as keepers, include: 909, Trion, jp11801, and Skullguise.

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...hlight=Minimax

Owners who kept the Minimax over the E5: None.

Geist: Judging by the comments here, the E5 seems to have a slightly high failure rate for the transports, when compared to other CDP's. And these aren't just people who are trashing the E5 because they want to damage the rep, because most of the complainees that I've seen are still 100% Eastsound supporters.

Art: The Philips VAM1202 transport in the E5 is used by a number of high end CDPs and is one of the most reliable transports you can get. Any CD transport can give problems - this is the most trouble prone part of any CDP. It is true that nearly all, out of well over a thousand E5s sold in North America, people with E5 problems have reported this on this site. Doesn't mean a thing - still a very low rate of problems - all fixed under warranty without sending a single unit back to China.

Many people, like myself, have bought a second (and more) E5s after their experience with their first.

Geist: Why free labour though? I'm just curious...usually people don't do nice things for free, especially time-consuming things like repairs...or maybe I'm just too cynical.

Art: No, I am trying to get you to buy a worthless product that is way too expensive. That way i feel better over having wasted my money in buying the E5.

Geist: Now you're just sounding like you're trying to sell me something.

Art: For you, I actually recommend the Minimax - please don't make the same mistake I did.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocktboy I have heard the EE minimax with some $450 AT phones (can't remember the model, it just has a price tag on it) at an audio show. I have to say I really like the sound a lot. I didn't get to listen to any familiar music material so I really couldn't compare the sound to my E5. I am using my E5 with either a Jasmine t-200 tube amp or a headroom little. I like the tube sound (2nd order harmonic distortion sure makes the vocals sound better than real) alot even though it rolls off the highs (perfect match for the HF-1) and lows and doesn't have the bass control of the headroom little.

Art: Absolutely true. You need some tubes in the signal path to get a natural tone body.

Tube and Ss each emphasize harmonics differently and this has a big effect on the sound signature.

Solid state yields a sharp edge to the tone image at the expense of leanness in the body of the tone image, and tubes do the opposite.

However, I think the source should be a solid state CDP, with a Class A output, and not a tube CDP.

I think the source should have high image resolution with a sharp tone edge definition, and the next step, the preamp, should be tube in order to restore more body to the tone, then followed by a solid state amp to a speaker or headphone.

This gives the most natural timbre and realistic sound for me.

Sure tube amps can be set up to give a hard sound that emulates the SS sharp tone edges, but this turns out to be slightly harsher than the SS sound.
It is simply not the same. This why people eventually reject tube amplification that gives sharp tone edges that solid state amps give - a tendency to slight harshness in bright lean tones, mostly noticed in the treble range.

Some SS amps do better with tone richness than others, but none can quite match the tone body of a tube amp with the right tubes. Even the most expensive solid state preamp and amp combinations fall slightly short. I like tube richness but eventually the coloration in timbre, from overemphasis of the tone body relative to the tone edge, turns me off.

A tube preamp and solid state amp is the best way to combine the best of soldid state sound with the best of tube sound. But it must be an excellent tube preamp and solid state amp, or it can produce new problems.

I didn't really get the best sound until I understood this and incorporated it it my system, and more importantly, I didn't fully understand this until I tried it out and was able then to compare it to my past all tube and all solid state preamp and amp components.

My home and headphone amplification gives me this tube-solid state combo. My Bada PH12 headphone amp provides added tone body to great SS characteristics, being essentially a tube preamp integrated with a solid state amp.

 

[tyrion]

I had the MM before the E5. I didn't sell it to get the E5. I bought a Berendsen CD-1 which I felt was a better cdp than the E5. However, I thought the E5 was an excellent cdp for the money. I sold the Berendsen, so I could buy the E5 fand Rega P5 and some speakers. I miss the Berendsen but I do not regret the decision. I hope to be able to compare the E5 with the Rega Apollo tomorrow.