[StarTreker]

Guys, I'm aware that the M200 has filters you can use to change the sound, but I've never used them, I kept the unit at default. I agree with Sonic Defender that a DAC shouldn't alter the sound. I find it strange SMSL found it necessary to put those filters in the unit in the first place, was there really a call for them? According to Zeos, he couldn't tell much of a difference with the filters in his video review.

 

[Telin]

My apologies, gentlemen: First for dropping out of the discussion last night just as it heated up. And second for stirring up this hornets nest with my posts comparing SMSL M200 and Gustard A18/X16. I had deliberately avoided posting my M200 experiences sooner because I didn't want to troll this nice thread, and because I didn't want M200 owners to think less of their DACs.

OTOH, I really like the way you guys conducted the discussion. And I like the consensus a lot!

We owe Amir and ASR a debt of gratitude for calling out some of the bluffs in the high-end audio industry over the last 50 years. Some of these manufacturers were (and still are) on the border of outright scams. And for decades they've had this unholy alliance with publishers and reviewers, who were rewarded with gear worth tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars, and often advertising too, in exchange for positive reviews. The claims of which nobody could verify.

No doubt measurements have a place in responsible design, manufacture and review of audio gear. I am not hearing anybody say otherwise. It's a great way to catch design flaws, production snafus -- and yes, snake oil salesmen -- because analyzers can detect faint signals which our ears cannot.

ASR has provided some transparency for consumers in comparing the measurable aspects of components from different manufacturers. No established business in any industry ever wants transparency, since it forces them to compete on price -- that's the last thing they want! Marketing departments exist almost entirely to shield companies from having to compete on price. So that contribution from ASR is indisputably a great thing!

But some ASR members have taken it too far, believing that their $100 component is fully comparable (or even superior to) $5,000 ones based on measurements alone. Sure, sometimes they really are comparable or superior! Other times not. There is a reason Amir uses a $50,000 pair of Mark Levinson No53 to drive his speakers: One being he can afford it, the other that they just sound better!

In addition to being a forum for folks who truly know their science, ASR has also attracted crowds who have no clue, and don't know what the measurements really show -- or what their limitations are. They just want to feel they got a great deal and are sticking it to the man (the expensive manufacturer). It is very comforting to be in a group where all agree on the same viewpoint, even if it's a fantasy.

There is nothing wrong with being a newbie, we all have been and still are in various fields of life. I know I am. But newbies who think they discovered the Holy Grail can be dangerous. To themselves and to others.

This success of ASR has led to a shift in the industry towards products that measure well, regardless of how they sound -- as long as they sound good enough that people with untrained ears cannot hear the flaws. And that, in my opinion, is NOT a great thing!

I have more to say on the subject of DACs supposedly all sounding the same, but I'm afraid it'll have to be another day

Very well put.

Yes I researched and eventually bought the M200 DAC but that means in no way that I think the M200 is superior to anything else. In the end it's about the enjoyment of listening to good quality music and the M200 provides that for me so I'm happy.
So if someone likes another DAC better then the M200 that's totally fine. You like the Gustard better because it gives you more enjoyment when listening to music and that is what it is all about so no problem whatsoever.

 

[Telin]

Great discussion. I think it would be difficult to have gear measure well, but sound bad, certainly with a DAC. A DAC that measures well should pass through the information essentially unchanged so you would just be hearing the original recording with excellent fidelity. At least as passed by the DAC to the downstream equipment.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that statement.
Jason was talking about AMPs. I agree that I would be harder to do with a DAC.

 

[Telin]

Guys, I'm aware that the M200 has filters you can use to change the sound, but I've never used them, I kept the unit at default. I agree with Sonic Defender that a DAC shouldn't alter the sound. I find it strange SMSL found it necessary to put those filters in the unit in the first place, was there really a call for them? According to Zeos, he couldn't tell much of a difference with the filters in his video review.

With the danger of opening another can of worms...

If I remember correctly those filters are part of the AKM chip design. It's up to the manufacturer to decide if he wants to give the consumer access to those filters or not.

Already huge discussions going on in multiple places about those filters and if you can hear it or not. Those filters all alter the sound >20Khz so can you hear that... personally I can't.

M200 also offers soundcolor options. Personally I feel that is not necessary as a DAC should not color the sound. I don't have big issues with those soundcolor options as long as you can turn it off. Have it run in pure DAC mode or something. I don't use the soundcolor options of the M200 and I don't plan on using it either.

I don't need or want those features in a DAC but I understand why manufacturers do implement them. The competition is though especially the last couple years. Today it's not that hard anymore to put a DAC together that sounds really well and doesn't cost >1000 dollar/euro. So manufacturers put more "features" in their products to try to set them apart from the rest of the competition in that way as just offering good sound is not enough anymore.

 

[lukedss]

Does anyone have any issues playing music from their Android phones? Wondering if the issue is the unit (that i can return) or my Huawei P20 Pro ?

 

[Dannemand]

Does anyone have any issues playing music from their Android phones? Wondering if the issue is the unit (that i can return) or my Huawei P20 Pro ?

No problems playing from an Android phone when I had the SMSL M200 (findings reported earlier in this thread).

But on most phones you have to use UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro) or other app with USB awareness to bypass the Android mixer, which will otherwise resample the stream and reduce its resolution to 16-bits. This causes artifacts which can be quite annoying, particularly on sensitive IEMs/headphones.

(There is a huge UAPP thread here on head-fi. You can download a trial from their website, but I consider it the easiest $8 to spend for anyone who cares about sound quality.)

What issues are you seeing?

 

[lukedss]

I connect, it shows the Bitrate. Either UAPP, Tidal, Spotify but no music plays

 

[Dannemand]

I connect, it shows the Bitrate. Either UAPP, Tidal, Spotify but no music plays

You mean the DAC shows the sample rate? I've never seen it show the bitrate.

Anyways, that definitely doesn't sound right (or at all )

Sounds to me like the phone is applying software volume control, and is turned down very low. Or in Silent mode or Do-Not-Disturb mode. But I bet you checked that already.

You always keep volume at max on the phone when playing to an external DAC to avoid reducing resolution. UAPP supports USB hardware volume control on M200, but whether you should use it is another matter: It's probably implemented on the USB level (the XU208) which means it also reduces resolution.

Again, you probably already knew these things and checked them. But it's the only explanation I can think of.

Are you able to play from a computer? Or put it this way, have you gotten ANY sound out of the DAC so far?

 

[lukedss]

Yes Sample Rate, I was confirming that the M200 clearly identifies the connection to my Android device-volume is up. It works fine on Macbook and Iphone though. I googled bluetooth issues and it talks about deleting bluetooth cache's but i cannot find this on the P20 Pro. Ok doesn't seem like a common issue..

 

[Dannemand]

Yes Sample Rate, I was confirming that the M200 clearly identifies the connection to my Android device-volume is up. It works fine on Macbook and Iphone though. I googled bluetooth issues and it talks about deleting bluetooth cache's but i cannot find this on the P20 Pro. Ok doesn't seem like a common issue..

Wait, you were talking about making a BT connection, not USB?

But good, we know the DAC is working!

Certainly BT should work too from your Android -- albeit at reduced quality, which some can hear, others not.

I tested the M200 with BT from my LG V30, and my wife tested and used it quite a bit with her V30.

It does indeed sound like a settings issue on the phone. Afraid I don't know Huawei phones, but it should all be straightforward.

 

[lukedss]

Yes sorry for not being clear, BT connections.

 

[Dannemand]

Yes sorry for not being clear, BT connections.

No problem, it just didn't occur to me, but it should have!

BT should be easy to connect and pair. In UAPP you must enable BT in the HiRes driver settings (which will help bypass the Android mixer up until the final BT encoding stage).

You can check the quality settings, either in BT settings or in Developer Options. But you should get sound no matter which setting you choose there.

I'm afraid that's all I got

 

[lukedss]

Ok so I had to reset network settings (incl Bluetooth) and it works fine!

 

[Dannemand]

Ok so I had to reset network settings (incl Bluetooth) and it works fine!

Great, well done. I should have suggested that

 

[StarTreker]

To be honest, most people don't own that brand of phone, so most of us can't give you brand specific troubleshooting options. And I personally wouldn't own that brand of phone for my own reasons. That is a very uncommon issue to have, so I just assumed it was something strange with the phone, which technically I am right, if you were forced to reset network connections with the phone. I personally have never had to do that with the phones that I've owned. Sometimes I've had to restart my phone but thats about it.

Truth is, our phones are like small computers, which means sometimes they malfunction. But if you buy a quality phone, those malfunctions usually are rare. I am glad that you got the problem fixed, but I would strongly suggest you buy a better quality phone at some point. So start setting a budget for a quality Android phone. But for now, go ahead and enjoy that music, now that you got the bloody connection to establish lol.