[foobar2015]

I recently join in head-fi community. To be honest, I haven't spent any serious money on head gear up until now. Because I already have a pretty decent Hi-Fi system setup at home for years. 
 
But recently, I become a new Dad. I can't turn up my B&W speakers with full power any more. So I ripped all my CD albums into ALAC, bought a Fiio and HD600, tried to find a new way to survive with my hobby.
 
One problem I don't get used to is that it is very difficult to find a physical store that I can test head gear personally. Reading review online is fine. But I don't believe what fits other fits me as well. Most of times, the reviews contradicts to each other. It is hard to make a buying decision by reading others' review without personal testing.
 
Pardon me my long background introduction and wrote a post at 4AM. My boy just woke me up.
 
My question is that where can I find a online store that provide a sample for testing before I make a final buying decision. I know Amazon can have a hazel-free return. But they only sell very limited number of head-fi gear. I'd appreciate if anyone share their own experiences. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Where did you get your speaker set-up? They might have some Musical Fidelity headphone amps there. Past that Schiit Audio has a trial period where you only have to pay a restocking fee plus shipping.

 

One reason for why the reviews might contradict each other (apart from some people having a different median reference point) is that headphones fit differently, and if two people wear the same headphone with enough variation it can be just as variable as feedback on two speakers in two very different rooms.

 

Let's take my favorite example, the HD6x0. The normal way to wear the HD600 even with the adjustments on the headband compresses the earpads too much, resulting in warmer sound; it also accelerates the wear, so it'll be sooner that one ends up with the earpads too worn out that the peaks at around 3500hz and 8500hz start getting boosted especially if they used the mod that omits the foam cover on the driver. If you adjust the headband frame shape to relax the clamp, you not only slow down the wear on the earpads, but you also minimize the effects of earpad compression.

 

 

My HD600 after bending the metal frame outwards - it won't fit in the box (cavity marked by spare earpads) but it's more comfortable.

 

 

AKG came up with a solution to that with its self-adjusting headband, which standardizes the fit on a wider range of head sizes, but people hated the bumps on the headband pad. At the same time the AKGs also are a great example of people having very different interpretations of headphone soundstage - some actually said the soundstage was narrower than usual, when they're simply used to hearing the cymbals to the flanks near where the guitars are (which isn't what it's like in real life), as on the typical headphone sound because the drivers are smack over the ear canal.

 

[foobar2015]

I bought it from Best Buy. The local store provides a semi-complete list of CM series B&W speakers and a large collection of AV receivers for testing in a dedicated theater room. But I'm not sure they try to carry head gears as I only find a limited number of headphone AMP in their website.
 
In any case, your point on contradictory review is quite insightful. The way we wear headphone is more often overlooked than how we place speakers and find a right spot to listen. That's quite true it affects the sound stage of headphone.
 
Thanks for your tips.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foobar2015 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I bought it from Best Buy. The local store provides a semi-complete list of CM series B&W speakers and a large collection of AV receivers for testing in a dedicated theater room. But I'm not sure they try to carry head gears as I only find a limited number of headphone AMP in their website.

 

I was hoping you bought it from a non-big chain local store where you might bump into the owner if not him being there all the time. In any case when my brother was looking for Grados I looked through their website and found a small, unassuming store in a strip mall smack behind his college campus that he must have driven past several times already (and I did it from the opposite edge of the Pacific), and he found a lot of speaker gear in there, like Musical Fidelity. Since Grado has a more extensive dealer locator on its website, I'd start there.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by foobar2015 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

In any case, your point on contradictory review is quite insightful. The way we wear headphone is more often overlooked than how we place speakers and find a right spot to listen. That's quite true it affects the sound stage of headphone.

 

In addition to that though note the average age difference between those in speaker forums and those in headphone forums. As much as many coming from speakers might not have a proper understanding of, say, the limitations as well as potential of headphone systems, given the relatively younger crowd in here, sometimes you'd come across a lot of people who have had no exposure to serious speaker systems, and often not even with anything that some people would at the same age have purchased from Guitar Center with their summer job savings. In other words as if qualitative descriptions aren't problematic enough you can bump into a lot of info coming from people whose familiarity with the terminologies comes more from browsing the audio  terms glossary here. Just look at that misinterpretation of a problematic soundstage as a "wide" one while a "narrow" stage is dismissed as such without consideration to the improvements in the precision of relative positioning of the instruments.

 

[12many]

Foobar, I am in the same boat as you.  In my novice opinion, most of the differences and value is in headphones.  The difference between $300 headphone amps of a quality brand name are probably minimal. I don't know because I don't own one and local stores have limited supply.   IMO, some can tell the differences and the reviews are discussing small variations that I could probably not hear and even if I could both would be great.  Just because there are differences does not mean one is bad.  I am been going back and forth on which amp to buy and I probably could not hear the difference between the ones on my list. 

 

[foobar2015]

@ProtegeManiac 
Well, you are my hero. I live in Raleigh, NC for 7 years. I never know there are at least three small local business selling headphone in my area. One of the store I drove by every day but I never notice it is a audio store. Because it only accepts private appointment. The store owner is not there all the time just as you said. Grado is really a good place to start with.
 
Headphone is quite different from speakers. Personally I prefer speakers to headphone. I never feel tired of listening music from my speakers but I do from my HD600 after listening for hours. In addition, there is no comparison in terms of sound stage between speakers and headphone (Maybe I don't have a decent pair of headphone yet)
 
I never ever plays MP3 or any loss format music through my speakers. Even I have ripped CD by custom highest rate in iTunes. I can tell the differences immediatly from speakers. But I can barely tell the difference between loss and lossless in my Fiio and HD600. Perhaps I'm getting old now and my ears are not as sensitive as before.
 
 
@12many 
 
I totally understand your point. It reminds me a book called outliers written by Malcolm Gladwell. One of story is about IQ. The way IQ affects personal success is very unique. No doubt IQ is essential in personal success. But once IQ reaches certain level, it is not that important any more.
 
But I'm not sure if the same can apply to the case of headphone. Because I'm a novice in headphone. I'm really want to have personal testing before I can draw a conclusion by myself.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foobar2015 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Well, you are my hero. I live in Raleigh, NC for 7 years. I never know there are at least three small local business selling headphone in my area. One of the store I drove by every day but I never notice it is a audio store. Because it only accepts private appointment. The store owner is not there all the time just as you said. Grado is really a good place to start with.

 

To put it in perspective, that's because strip malls for example in US suburbs or just off downtown are actually better constructed than those in Manila. We don't even really call them that here, but the thing is, the reason why they're harder to miss is because many such commercial spaces are built along the street, and parking spaces just in front of every store while also getting in the way of the sidewalk for pedestrians and bikes. it's like the whole city was built (contrary to what bike fanatics argue as car-centric, considering that as much as cars get in the way, it's because parking is a freaking afterthought) with street cars and trains and everyone walks (or carriages and horses), even in the areas that were made long after Ford started selling cars here. Basically, you can't miss a huge sign with "audio" in the store name with a screaming red "NAD" or blue and white tuning fork right next to it because they're pushed out towards the street.

By contrast over there you get an L or U shaped building complex with parking slots along the buildings and if large enough, in the center, with the whole complex in its own compound instead of getting in the way of pedestrians and bikes.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by foobar2015 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Headphone is quite different from speakers. Personally I prefer speakers to headphone. I never feel tired of listening music from my speakers but I do from my HD600 after listening for hours. In addition, there is no comparison in terms of sound stage between speakers and headphone (Maybe I don't have a decent pair of headphone yet)

 

The main problem really is physics. First off you don't put speakers at such an angle to your flanks; even car speakers aimed at each other aren't directly to the left and right of the driver and front passenger. Second, headphone listening isolates each ear from the opposite side driver. Firing a speaker straight into the ear canal as well as not hearing both causes issues for both imaging as well as enhancing fatigue.

 

Some manufacturers deal with the first by angling the drivers to imitate toe-in, like the chassis on the HD800, HD700, and Qualia; also the T1 and T5P, but that's not as easy to see as the outer cups don't show it. AKG uses angled earpads on the K7-- models except for the K7XX. You can still sort of mimic this in the HD600 though - when you put them on push them forward as much as you can against your ear as long as it isn't too uncomfortable. That at least places the driver off the top of the ear canals; over time as well with more pressure along the front the earpads actually take on the shape of AKG earpads that are fatter towards the rear (or at least mine did). Still not the same, but it helps.

 

For the second problem there's Crossfeed, which is basically deliberate but strategically selective Crosstalk. You apply a filter above which some frequences are filtered across both channels. This results in a narrower soundstage, but the important part is that it results into more precise relative positioning rather than have the guitars and cymbals at the extreme left and right, with the drums divided between extreme left, center, and extreme right.