[appar111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eisenhower Glad I could provide an easy cope out for you. But maybe next time you wont be so overly sensitive about something silly like music.

I think that you have alot of good points in some of your posts. Something new and intriguing, different, etc. is alot of times uncomfortable for people to listen to and acclimate to, because it's outside of what they are used to. Holdsworth, Bjork, Miles Davis' "electric" period, whatever. Alot of times, it takes a long time for people to realize that what made it uncomfortable at first is actually what makes it genius. Not to knock the satches, vais and petrucci's of the world, because they are very talented in their own right.

And you're opinion of them as "generic' is just that--- you're opinion. Bravo to you for having the cahones to say that you think they are generic or like "prostitutes compared to wives". I might think that statement is far overreaching, and maybe needs to be re-worded a bit so as not to be so extreme, but you've got your likes and dislikes just like I do. I don't find Holdsworth's music very appealing to listen to, but I know the guy has talent, and some people "get it" and some dont, just like Bjork, Miles, etc. etc.

And who's on the magazine covers rarely coincides with who has the talent-- it's more just what's being pushed into our faces. Sometimes it just so happens that the guy on the cover IS exceptionally talented (i.e. holdsworth, eric johnson, whomever). But alot of times, it's just J-Lo, or N' Sync, or Korn, or some other nu-metal band... you get the picture.

I think what's causing all the strife is that, regardless of your likes and dislikes (if you don't like 80's metal, that's cool... it's not your bag), it seems like you want to antagonize some of the other head-fiers, which is a bit troll-like. I think I get what you're trying to say and all, but I think it can be said in a way that doesn't need to intentionally tick off another head-fier...

 

[Eisenhower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appar111 I think that you have alot of good points in some of your posts. Something new and intriguing, different, etc. is alot of times uncomfortable for people to listen to and acclimate to, because it's outside of what they are used to. Holdsworth, Bjork, Miles Davis' "electric" period, whatever. Alot of times, it takes a long time for people to realize that what made it uncomfortable at first is actually what makes it genius. Not to knock the satches, vais and petrucci's of the world, because they are very talented in their own right. And you're opinion of them as "generic' is just that--- you're opinion. Bravo to you for having the cahones to say that you think they are generic or like "prostitutes compared to wives". I might think that statement is far overreaching, and maybe needs to be re-worded a bit so as not to be so extreme, but you've got your likes and dislikes just like I do. I don't find Holdsworth's music very appealing to listen to, but I know the guy has talent, and some people "get it" and some dont, just like Bjork, Miles, etc. etc. And who's on the magazine covers rarely coincides with who has the talent-- it's more just what's being pushed into our faces. Sometimes it just so happens that the guy on the cover IS exceptionally talented (i.e. holdsworth, eric johnson, whomever). But alot of times, it's just J-Lo, or N' Sync, or Korn, or some other nu-metal band... you get the picture. I think what's causing all the strife is that, regardless of your likes and dislikes (if you don't like 80's metal, that's cool... it's not your bag), it seems like you want to antagonize some of the other head-fiers, which is a bit troll-like. I think I get what you're trying to say and all, but I think it can be said in a way that doesn't need to intentionally tick off another head-fier...

Some people take differing opinions as an insult. I dont recall saying anyone mentioned here was untalented.
You reiterated my point regarding the magazine cover, except that holdsworth and the like are not on the covers because they don't appeal to the "hip" youth. Look at Zakk Wylde, a decent guitarist at best, he's be on more guitar magazine covers than I can shake a stick at, mainly because of his massive amounts of endorsements. Some might percive his popularity as being a measure of his talent.
I tend to be acute in my statements when I know Im right. That might come off as being antagonizing. I've seen satch live and have vai and petrucci videos. yeah they're good at guitar, but their intention seems geared towards selling out shows and records, and not making original, captivating music.

 

[appar111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eisenhower Some people take differing opinions as an insult. I dont recall saying anyone mentioned here was untalented. You reiterated my point regarding the magazine cover, except that holdsworth and the like are not on the covers because they don't appeal to the "hip" youth. Look at Zakk Wylde, a decent guitarist at best, he's be on more guitar magazine covers than I can shake a stick at, mainly because of his massive amounts of endorsements. Some might percive his popularity as being a measure of his talent. I tend to be acute in my statements when I know Im right. That might come off as being antagonizing. I've seen satch live and have vai and petrucci videos. yeah they're good at guitar, but their intention seems geared towards selling out shows and records, and not making original, captivating music.

I think just a simple post like this helps clarify your intentions in your other posts, which is good because it diffuses any bad feelings that might have gotten drummed up.

Zakk Wylde--- man, I used to really like that guy, but he looks like a friggin' idiot nowadays. The speaker endorsement w/ the skull sticker on the back-- sheesh. What an endorsement whore.. which is a shame, cause he seems like a nice guy. He needs to cut that beard too...

I think Vai and Satch and Petrucci's intentions are to make captivating music that has their own "stamp" on it... but I don't think that's their only intention. If it were, they would be making some truly sick talented music, whereas right now they seem to have found a niche that works for them and keeps a steady fan base.

I think we'd be better off starting a separate thread on this whole issue, as it's probably gotten away from the whole "mind-bending guitar solo" topic a bit.

Thanks again for clarifying what you were saying in your other posts-- it's appreciated!

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eisenhower I've seen satch live and have vai and petrucci videos. yeah they're good at guitar, but their intention seems geared towards selling out shows and records, and not making original, captivating music.

Do you own any Vai records?

I've never seen him live, but albums like Flex-able, Passion and Warfare, and The Ultra Zone are weird as hell and highly unlikely to be geared towards selling out records. He takes a lot of chances with his music and does some really off the wall things with his guitar.. in fact, he's one of the few guiarists whom I've heard refered to as having his guitar as an extension of his body.

I can sorta understand the arguments towards Satriani and Petrucci, but Vai is in a completely different world from an aesthetic viewpoint.

Personally, the most mindbending solos I've ever heard have come from Fredrik Thordendal and Ron Thal.

 

[Eisenhower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox Do you own any Vai records? I've never seen him live, but albums like Flex-able, Passion and Warfare, and The Ultra Zone are weird as hell and highly unlikely to be geared towards selling out records. He takes a lot of chances with his music and does some really off the wall things with his guitar.. in fact, he's one of the few guiarists whom I've heard refered to as having his guitar as an extension of his body. I can sorta understand the arguments towards Satriani and Petrucci, but Vai is in a completely different world from an aesthetic viewpoint. Personally, the most mindbending solos I've ever heard have come from Fredrik Thordendal and Ron Thal.

steve vai has done some wierd stuff with zappa. His live shows are really tacky though, like, unwatchable tacky.
Funny how you should mention fredrik thordendal:
"Most notable is the similarity between his solos and those of legendary jazz guitarist Allan Holdsworth." ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredrik_Thordendal

Although, on a purely technical level, I dont think thordendal compares to many others listed (at least not on any of the meshuggah records)

 

[rlanger]

Hey Wax,

Given your musical tastes, you may not have ever been exposed to someone like Scott Henderson? If not, I think you might like him. He's a jazz fusion guy, but also plays some of the nastiest blues stuff you'll ever come across. Dog Party and Tore Down House are two remarkable blues albums. Specifically, check out Dolemite, the first track on Tore Down House.

I'm a jazzer at heart, so I have to throw a nod in here for a couple of my faves:

Anything by Pat Metheny (you might like the cut Third Wind from the album Still Life (Talking))

John Scofield (his tribute to Ray Charles album is outstanding).

And finally, a few other names who are no less great in the jazz world (if you are so inclined to explore): Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Lenny Breau, Mike Stern, Pat Martino, John Abercrombie, well I could go on...

Enjoy,

Rob

 

[wax4213]

Hey rlanger,

The name rings a bell, but I don't think I've heard any of his music. I'm off to youtube to get a taste, I'll probably pick up an album sometime in the relatively near future, especially if Hastings has one used. Gotta love cheap CD's! And I'll certainly look at some of your other suggestions, I don't mind broadening my music collection, especially when you present it so nicely.

Oh, Eisenhower, I do appreciate your post that clarified where you were coming from and your intentions, sorry I took your previous posts like I did. I'll try to find some better recordings of some of Allan Holdsworth's stuff and see if I can begin to appreciate it. This might be a good excuse to buy some cans other than my Grados!

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eisenhower Funny how you should mention fredrik thordendal: "Most notable is the similarity between his solos and those of legendary jazz guitarist Allan Holdsworth." Although, on a purely technical level, I dont think thordendal compares to many others listed (at least not on any of the meshuggah records)

I love Holdsworth, always have.. his music appealed to me instantly. That being said, I once heard Thordendal's leads described as Allan Holdsworth with his brain attached to the SkyNet supercomputer.. and it fits.

On a purely technical level, I absolutely think that Thordendal compares to every last person mentioned in this thread. You don't hear many drawn out and flashy solos on Meshuggah records because that isn't what Meshuggah is trying to bring forward.. Meshuggah comes across as a cold machine, an army of cyborgs bent on collapsing your brain with labyrinthine meta-rhythms and impossibly displaced patterns. That's where Thordendal's (and the rest of the band's) technical ability really comes forth.. and that's half the fun of listening to Meshuggah - trying desperately to break down and figure out the swirling patterns. His leads, where they appear, are assimilated into the mental assault.

If you want to hear more Thordendal and less Meshuggah, check out Sol Niger Within.. he really comes into his own, there.

 

[Eisenhower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox I love Holdsworth, always have.. his music appealed to me instantly. That being said, I once heard Thordendal's leads described as Allan Holdsworth with his brain attached to the SkyNet supercomputer.. and it fits. On a purely technical level, I absolutely think that Thordendal compares to every last person mentioned in this thread. You don't hear many drawn out and flashy solos on Meshuggah records because that isn't what Meshuggah is trying to bring forward.. Meshuggah comes across as a cold machine, an army of cyborgs bent on collapsing your brain with labyrinthine meta-rhythms and impossibly displaced patterns. That's where Thordendal's (and the rest of the band's) technical ability really comes forth.. and that's half the fun of listening to Meshuggah - trying desperately to break down and figure out the swirling patterns. His leads, where they appear, are assimilated into the mental assault. If you want to hear more Thordendal and less Meshuggah, check out Sol Niger Within.. he really comes into his own, there.

Thordendal's solos, to me, are like the organic side of Meshuggah. Many might call the bands music harsh or cold, but thordendal has the total opposite sound when soloing, he's smooth and melodic. I see this contrast the most on Nothing. Of course there are exceptions when his solos are totally random and nuts (like most of the stuff off of Choasphere).

 

[splaz]

This guy:

Leon Todorovich

He's my age and is the best local guitarist I've ever heard. Just him and his guitar, a drumkit and a keyboard in those few songs.

Used to know him in high school. Sorry about the shameless plug but I feel he's talented.

I personally like Eugene's Tragic Misadventure.

 

[MacacoDoSom]

...check Guthrie Govan (The Aristocrats)