[Bullitt]

Alright... so it's my first time, be gentle and all that jazz. Stumbled onto this site the other day because I was sick of listening to my Koss TD-cheapos that I've had for way too many years. I've got a homebuilt computer with Audigy 2 ZS Platinum that I am almost always on. I also have the original 5GB Rio Carbon that I use occasionally. My music tastes are eclectic at best. I have a passion for music and am always looking for something to get me better sound... so this just about seems like the perfect hobby for me!

Anyways... I'm always looking for fun new projects, and I've never thought of headphones as quality output, but apparently I was wrong. So I'm getting new headphones! Looking at entry-level stuff.. nothing more than 100 bucks really. I've basically gone down to Grado 60s or 80s and the Senn 485s. Those just seem from what I've been reading to be generally entry-level. So any comments on those would be much appreciated. It seems that most people started off with the Grado's, but I've heard very little about the 485's. Compare, contrast?

What really intrigues me though is the amps and crossfeeds and what not. If I end up getting new headphones, I'm pretty sure I'll build an amp just for the fun of it. Any suggestions for a reasonable can/DIY amp combo that works well? I've had a reasonable amount of experience with circuits and what not, so I'm not worried about building anything (long nights in my Georgia Tech engineering labs made sure of that).

Oh yeah, somewhat small price budge on the headphones... like SUB $100. I know that generally seems to be what all the new guys say, but we can't help it... no one wants to put crazy loads of cash into a hobby they don't even know whether they like or not!

 

[dag655321]

Bullitt, you are bringing back such fond memories. Not only am I am Georgia Tech alum (BSME '00), but I have both of those headphones at my desk (Sr-60 and HD-485 that is). Neither of them are my primary cans anymore, but I will pull them out and spend a little more time with the to give you a better review.

The short answer is, the SR-60s are a much more "fun" can. They play better with rock than anything Sennheiser makes. They are also quite a bit smaller and more portable that the HD-485. Grados give you the option of playing with the pad (i.e. comfies, bowls, Senn HD-414 pads or even Zeta pads from Headphile). IMO the SR-60s are far better in terms of overall sound quality as well.

The HD-485 are bigger and circumaural as opposed to the supra-aural Grados. They are a little darker and have a little more bass. They are lacking in the midrange, and can get boomy with bass heavy music. Presonally I don't find them all that comfortable, becuase the circumaural pads are kinda small. I end up tucking my ears inside of them to make them fit. They are a decent starter can, but lean more towards the Sennheiser "veil" than the Grado "openness".

Given thier size, weight and great performance I would vote for the SR-60s. I owned a pair of Sennheiser HD-590s for about three years, but did not really get into headphones until I owned the Grados.

Oh yeah, and I don't consider the SR-80 a big upgrade from the SR-60 especially if you do not have an amp. My advice would be to buy the SR-60, build yourself an amp and start saving for the SR-225 or HF-1. That is where the magic happens.

 

[sgrossklass]

For the SR-60, you can find a frequency response graph @Headroom:
http://graphs.headphone.com/
As you can see, they are fairly capable cans with quite some brightness, which is why Grados frequently are the cans of choice for rocking out. They fare less well with classical music.
HD485s, unlike SR-60s, haven't been on the market for very long yet. According to Headroom and folks who've bought them, they have a warm and smooth sound, which I'd associate with a frequency response that mainly drops off from the bass to the highs, quite a few dB at that. Maybe the HD497s are an indication, probably it's more than that though. Apparently they are pretty good and beat HD515s, but HD555s are a class better. Maybe you could pick up a used sample of the latter model on the for sale forum.

 

[gshan]

Bullitt:

Good news
-Koss actually ain't too shabby. Two of their $20 clipon models can easily compete with <$100 headphones.
-Rio Carbon is a great player!
-You've come to the right place, and the only place you'll need.

Bad news
-You will never be able to build a new computer again. Say goodbye to the "new computer fund" that you might try to maintain. Audio upgrades will suck the life out of it.

 

[Bullitt]

Thanks guys for the info... The Grado 60s were kindof what I was leaning towards anyway. Cool.

Do you guys have any good suggestions where to get them? I'd like to do it online, but I don't have any experience with online headphone folks, esp Grado dealers. Any favorite online stores?

Also, does anyone use the 60s amped? I think I read that one guy really liked the 60s with CMoy amp. Would amping the headphones make much of a difference with a lower-end set like the 60s?

 

[MrEcted1]

My first "good" cans are Grado SR-80's which are currently my only cans because I am new as well.

Let me tell you one thing... I was completely blown away with the Grado's. They have enough bass to keep the low-end thumpin' (some bass-heads may disagree, but I think it's plenty of bass) and their mids and highs are awesome. I can't stop listening to them! Oh... by the way... this hobby will suck the money out of you. Now I am buying a PA2V2, which isn't expensive, but it's a start =) Also I am now saving up money for either HF-1's or 325i's... I'm being sucked into the black hole of new music dimensions!

If you asked me I would most certainly get the Grado SR-60's. If they sound lke the SR-80's, which is what I always hear (plus they use the same drivers) then you can't go wrong!

 

[MrEcted1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt Thanks guys for the info... The Grado 60s were kindof what I was leaning towards anyway. Cool. Do you guys have any good suggestions where to get them? I'd like to do it online, but I don't have any experience with online headphone folks, esp Grado dealers. Any favorite online stores? Also, does anyone use the 60s amped? I think I read that one guy really liked the 60s with CMoy amp. Would amping the headphones make much of a difference with a lower-end set like the 60s?

Check out your local audio stores, that's where I got mine. Usually you don't get much of a discount online, plus you have to pay shipping (at least the sites I've cheked out).

Or better yet... go to the Headphones Buy/Trade forum and post a thread that you want to buy some SR-60's. I bought some which weren't even broken in yet, with the box and everything for like $50.00 shipped (Thanks Macaela!) In case you're wondring (cuz I already have SR-80's) I bought them as a gift for my little sister. I will do a comparison once they arrive.

 

[Bullitt]

I just put a WTB post in for the Grado 60s OR 80s. thanks!

 

[dag655321]

The improvement you get by amping the SR-60 is relative. It depends on how good the amp is in whatever you are using as a source. I have an iPod with the infamous low frequency rollof when paired with low impedance cans (such as Grados). Therefor I get a significant improvement when using an amp between my iPod and Grados. IMO even the SR-60s benefit from a good amp. I originally purchased my SinglePower PPX3 6SN7 tube amp (about $700 brand new, but I got a used one) for use with my SR-60s. They work well together and I still listen to them quite often. I have since upgraded to HF-1s, SR-225s and a few other cans, but the SR-60s can still hold their own with most music. Thier price/performance ration is hard if not impossible to beat.

You will probably notice some subtle improvements when amping the SR-60. They improvements usually show up in the frequency extreems. Bass will sound lower and fuller, and highs will extend further and usually be smoother.

A decent DAP, and good portable or Cmoy amp and a pair of SR-60s will serve you well and a portable, and stay at home rig. By the way what does Cmoy stand for anyway?

Oh yeah, and definetly get some HD-414 pads (direct from Sennheiser) and do the reverse mod on them. The bass will get nice a deep, and it will help you get the most out of whatever amp you end up with.

 

[Bullitt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dag655321 By the way what does Cmoy stand for anyway?

LOL I was wondering the same thing. A little background reading got me to figure that the guy that came up with that particular design using op-amps was named Chu Moy.

 

[Underdog311]

I am leaning towards picking up some Grado SR60's for my first headphone purchase besides earbuds. The price seems good and everyone seems to like them. However, I came across this sentence in one guys review of them and I was wondering if someone could shed some light on this since I have no clue what he is talking about:

"My only measly complaint is that Grado still hasn't made factory-cut hollow earpieces for the SR60s. They come solid and you have to cut holes in them yourself (donut style) to get the best sound."

Cut holes in them? Wha?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ayreonaut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dag655321 I originally purchased my SinglePower PPX3 6SN7 tube amp (about $700 brand new, but I got a used one) for use with my SR-60s.

This always makes me laugh. A $700 amp for $70 cans?

I'm new at this, but I'm working towards a $300 source/$300 amp/$300 cans kind of Balance. The popular concensus is that the Headphones are the most important element, right?

 

[kramer5150]

Welcome to headphone audio!! Its a very addictive hobby. Sorry about your wallet.

Get out and DEMO(!!!). Use your ears to guide you.

My standard reply:
MS1, one of the more tame Grados, Mids are not as foreward. Easier (safer bet) for a grado noob to like, as compared to the SR60/80/125.

K240s, Nice warm sound, super comfey. Best $80 can on the market IMHO. Does need a hefty amp circuit though, which doesn't seem to be a problem for you. Tends to sound muddy straight out of my MP3 player, although IMHO it certainly is listenable under-amped. I'd take an under-amped K240s over a V6 or HD280 any day. Mint, Pimeta, PA2V2, govibe or well made cmoy will do just fine.

KSC75, Good value at $20, circuit city.

UR40, another good value. Same driver as the KSC75, but a fuller earcup spaces the drivers out away from the ears. Result is a KSC75 like sound but more open and spatious. Can be found for $25 on the www.

KSC35, $25, Less aggressive sibling of the KSC75.
portapro/sportapro/portaproII, $35, bass heavy, warm highs/mids. IMHO a bit muddy at times compared to the KSC75 but still a good value.

demo demo demo!!!

Garrett

 

[dag655321]

This always makes me laugh. A $700 amp for $70 cans?

It was a little stange, but not that out of wack. Lots of (well not lots, but some) people have purchased really high end amps, like a HeadRoom Max Balanced amp for $4000, to drive a $200-300 pair of headphones (like Senn HD-600s or Beyer DT-880s). That is even higher than my 10 to 1 ratio. I have since upgraded the cans, but even my most expensive only cost me $200 (HF-1s). The rest I picked up for less than that, mostly used. Anyway, really high quality amps tend to cost more, because the volumes are so much lower. Sennheiser probably sells more headphones in a day than some of the small amp companies do all year. The truth is I fell in love with tube amps at the last Boston Head-Fi meet, and I had to have one. The quality and features on the PPX3 made me comfortable with spending the dough. Not to mention that this amp could probably last me the rest of my life, while I seem to change headphones every few months.

edit: *

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut This always makes me laugh. A $700 amp for $70 cans? I'm new at this, but I'm working towards a $300 source/$300 amp/$300 cans kind of Balance. The popular concensus is that the Headphones are the most important element, right?

Call me crazy but I like the sound of my $15 KSC75 out of my Millet. I got a sportapro for $7 and it also sounds good... same goes for the UR40.

Crazy??
Garrett