[jamesfonda]

Hello there,
 
In a bit of a quandry due to maybe there being too much information out there but none specific to what I'm looking for.
 
I'm looking to have a family member purchase and bring over a pair of headphones from Europe next month and I'm stuck on deciding what to get. I *was* sold on getting the HD650s but am not sure if they're the most versatile option.
 
I currently have a Maverick D1 Amp/DAC which feeds some KRK RP8s in my lounge and I'm looking for a lounge headphone with which to listen to music (90% of time) and watch movies (10%).
 
The other headphones I own are Vsonics Gr07 v2 and M50s thanks to recommendations found here and I'm very happy with both of them for their respective purposes (work and gym/travelling).
 
Wrt musical genres, I'd probably say I listen to minimal techno, indie rock, and electropop in equal quantities (75% of all music) followed by classical, reggae, and 70s/80s taking up the rest of my listening time.
 
What I'm looking for is a headphone that is:
 
1) A clear upgrade to what I have
2) Detailed and fast enough to enjoy classical and electronic music
3) Bassy enough to put a smile on my face
4) Comfortable
5) Ideally not costing more than 500 Euro
 
 
Your suggestions are heartily welcomed!

 

[Za Warudo]

The HE400 is only good for bassy genres, so you can rule that out.  The HD650 is quite versatile, though some people think it's too slow for fast paced music, not sure I would agree with that.  I have the HE560 and it's a very fast and balanced HP that can handle music you throw at it.  Some comparisons I read between the 400i and 560 say they are fairly similar tonal wise with the 400i being less refined and having a smaller soundstage.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I currently have a Maverick D1 Amp/DAC which feeds some KRK RP8s in my lounge and I'm looking for a lounge headphone with which to listen to music (90% of time) and watch movies (10%).
 
2) Detailed and fast enough to enjoy classical and electronic music
3) Bassy enough to put a smile on my face

 
 
A few notes on the Sennheisers:

1) Amplification. I tried my HD600 on the Maverick D1, and it was slightly warmer - with more bloom on the bass that gives the impression of slightly "slower" bass - than my Meier Cantate.2. Not as bad as, say, my older Little Dot MkII, but the difference is noticeable on rock/metal with a fast and loud bass line. There are also a bunch of other amps that some notice sound a little slower/have more bloom in the bass that affects the decay, so at least going in know that those who say they handle fast music are likely using different amps from those who are using stereotypical "tube sound." The latter would of course likely contest any assertion that these are "picky" the same way that the K701 is known to be because they like the sound with their amps; personally what I've noticed is that on really good amps, the two headphones don't sound that much different (meaning that on "lesser" amps, their impedance and such affects the response and dynamics differently).
 
2) Earpad wear. When the earpads get worn out, which would only come faster if you like them a little tighter (for deeper bass), the bass gets too flabby and the treble can get sharp. At the very least, as the pads wear out, you'd have to wear them looser. Note though if you need someone to bring these in from the EU, you might want to have them get two spare sets of earpads. Before the first set gets too worn out, start using the other one and wash the first, then cycle them every few dozen hours of use (you'd need to wash them anyway). Keep the other spare set for when both are just too worn out, use it while you're waiting for a new pair to arrive (distro in my country is an absolute POS with Sennheiser spare parts).
 
3) Complimentary to the KRK Rokits. They generally have a similar sound, so the HD600 would be great to use when the speakers' noise would be a problem. I'd use these if I needed active monitors, although what I ended up getting before was the Swans D1080 MkII 08 - what these give up to the KRKs is the "grunt" in the electric guitars' distortion effects (similar to what the Focal K2P Polykevlar has over the polypropylene-paper Polyglass), but they were a lot cheaper here so I went for those. If anything though it might be the Maverick that can make a difference in your set-up - AFAIK the tube only works for the preamp output, so that might mean the KRK can sound warmer.

 

[cel4145]

The HE400 is only good for bassy genres, so you can rule that out. 

I strongly disagree. If you like the M50s for the genres you listen to, I would think you would love the HE-400s.

 

[jamesfonda]

I strongly disagree. If you like the M50s for the genres you listen to, I would think you would love the HE-400s.

 
I do enjoy the M50s bass but I've been looking forward to the 'air' of an open backed headphone. The D1 is quite a warm amp, so would the combo with 400i be a better match?
 
Also (and I hope I don't open a can of worms here), will an aftermarket cable (like toxic silver) open up the HD650 sound so give best of both worlds or is that a waster of time?

 

[jamesfonda]

   
 
A few notes on the Sennheisers:

1) Amplification. I tried my HD600 on the Maverick D1, and it was slightly warmer - with more bloom on the bass that gives the impression of slightly "slower" bass - than my Meier Cantate.2. Not as bad as, say, my older Little Dot MkII, but the difference is noticeable on rock/metal with a fast and loud bass line. There are also a bunch of other amps that some notice sound a little slower/have more bloom in the bass that affects the decay, so at least going in know that those who say they handle fast music are likely using different amps from those who are using stereotypical "tube sound." The latter would of course likely contest any assertion that these are "picky" the same way that the K701 is known to be because they like the sound with their amps; personally what I've noticed is that on really good amps, the two headphones don't sound that much different (meaning that on "lesser" amps, their impedance and such affects the response and dynamics differently).
 
2) Earpad wear. When the earpads get worn out, which would only come faster if you like them a little tighter (for deeper bass), the bass gets too flabby and the treble can get sharp. At the very least, as the pads wear out, you'd have to wear them looser. Note though if you need someone to bring these in from the EU, you might want to have them get two spare sets of earpads. Before the first set gets too worn out, start using the other one and wash the first, then cycle them every few dozen hours of use (you'd need to wash them anyway). Keep the other spare set for when both are just too worn out, use it while you're waiting for a new pair to arrive (distro in my country is an absolute POS with Sennheiser spare parts).
 
3) Complimentary to the KRK Rokits. They generally have a similar sound, so the HD600 would be great to use when the speakers' noise would be a problem. I'd use these if I needed active monitors, although what I ended up getting before was the Swans D1080 MkII 08 - what these give up to the KRKs is the "grunt" in the electric guitars' distortion effects (similar to what the Focal K2P Polykevlar has over the polypropylene-paper Polyglass), but they were a lot cheaper here so I went for those. If anything though it might be the Maverick that can make a difference in your set-up - AFAIK the tube only works for the preamp output, so that might mean the KRK can sound warmer.

Thanks for your detailed response! Would you say the 600s have the same speed as the 650s? While I'd agree that the KRKs probably have the same sound signature as the 600s (slightly warm side of neutral from what I've read), I do sometimes EQ in a slightly warmer sound than that which is why I thought the 650s would be a good fit.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Thanks for your detailed response! Would you say the 600s have the same speed as the 650s? While I'd agree that the KRKs probably have the same sound signature as the 600s (slightly warm side of neutral from what I've read), I do sometimes EQ in a slightly warmer sound than that which is why I thought the 650s would be a good fit.

 
I can barely tell the difference between the HD600 and HD650 on the same earpads - the 650 just has a bit less glare on the treble, and maybe less grain (or with less treble you really hear less grain, unless there's something wrong). However if you EQ them to sound warmer I can't tell how much the speed will be affected - they already have a +6db plateau over the rest of the frequency range from 150hz or so down to 50hz. Note though that if all things said about Sennheiser versions are to be believed, the initial HD600s are essentially the HD580J in a tacky finish (which I believe), while latter versions are actually using HD650 drivers (mine supposedly are - manufactured in 2008; not sure how true this is). In any case someone older and more familiar with these things hosts a meet for us, took one look at my HD600, and said I bought an HD650 at a bargain price (heck, I got it used with worn out earpads and headband pads for $180).
 
Just to illustrate the thing about PRAT - on my set-up Nightwish sounds like it's playing at slightly over 1X speed. The whole performance sounds like they're doing everything faster (or the reverse may be true - stock earbuds may be slow for example). Even with the same source (Samsung S3 as music server) into another DAC-HPamp to power my Aurisonics ASG-1 IEMs sounds "faster" than other earphones (even without the amp), although there is noticeably more bloom on it even with the amp compared to the HD600. Apply flattening EQ on NeutronMusicPlayer, and it somewhat catches up. My older CMOY however does a horrible job on the HD600s in all aspects, this included.

 

[cel4145]

I do enjoy the M50s bass but I've been looking forward to the 'air' of an open backed headphone. The D1 is quite a warm amp, so would the combo with 400i be a better match?

I can't tell you about the 400i.

The HE-400 has a MUCH better soundstage than the M50.

 

[superjawes]

Also (and I hope I don't open a can of worms here), will an aftermarket cable (like toxic silver) open up the HD650 sound so give best of both worlds or is that a waster of time?

Basically, no. If you really want to get into that discussion, check out Sound Science. Otherwise, focus on getting the best pair of headphones for your needs.

I tried the HD650 right next to the HD600, and I could not tell the difference. I can say that I am very happy with my 600's, too.

I don't have any experience with the HE-400 or 400i, but the 400 is definitely tempting at its current price (about $100 USD below the HD600).