[Rudiger]

Hello there,
 
I would like to decrease the signal between my PC and my DAC, which is integrated directly into my stereo (NAD C356 BEE).
From what I understand, it is not recommended to do this by decreasing the volume from the PC because this causes data loss.
Do you Know what gear could do that (sort of the Schiit SYS but for digital)?
 
Thanx !

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudiger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I would like to decrease the signal between my PC and my DAC, which is integrated directly into my stereo (NAD C356 BEE).

From what I understand, it is not recommended to do this by decreasing the volume from the PC because this causes data loss.

Do you Know what gear could do that (sort of the Schiit SYS but for digital)?

 

 

OK...first off, you can not "analogically" lower the volume between the PC and the DAC because the signal isn't even analogue. The PC transmits a digital signal to the Digital to Analogue Converter. 

 

Second...why do you even want to do this? If I understand correctly, "integrated directly" means it's one of the NAD modules on the C356BEE, like what they have on the C370, right? It's like the Schiit input module on their DACs that can be swapped out for newer USB and/or SPDIF receiver chips, except this time it's a full-on DAC module that can be put inside an amplifier? Then why control the volume another way when the signal from a DAC that is "integrated directly" into the amplifier when the amplifier has its own preamplifier stage and preamp output? Any way to connect this apart from the tape loop output will pass through the preamp on the amp.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudiger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Do you Know what gear could do that (sort of the Schiit SYS but for digital)?

 

How about an app? Apply Replay Gain on your music files, or on the fly application of Replay Gain depending on the player (ex Neutron on Android/iOS uses Replay Gain in its DSP). It only works on locally-stored content though.

 

[Rudiger]

 

 

 

OK...first off, you can not "analogically" lower the volume between the PC and the DAC because the signal isn't even analogue. The PC transmits a digital signal to the Digital to Analogue Converter. 

 

Second...why do you even want to do this? If I understand correctly, "integrated directly" means it's one of the NAD modules on the C356BEE, like what they have on the C370, right? It's like the Schiit input module on their DACs that can be swapped out for newer USB and/or SPDIF receiver chips, except this time it's a full-on DAC module that can be put inside an amplifier? Then why control the volume another way when the signal from a DAC that is "integrated directly" into the amplifier when the amplifier has its own preamplifier stage and preamp output? Any way to connect this apart from the tape loop output will pass through the preamp on the amp.

 

 

 

How about an app? Apply Replay Gain on your music files, or on the fly application of Replay Gain depending on the player (ex Neutron on Android/iOS uses Replay Gain in its DSP). It only works on locally-stored content though.

Thanx.
Yes it is the NAD Dac module on the C356BEE (which is very good).
I want to do this because I have very little play with the volume knob, I never exceeds the position at 7:30 o'clock.
I can not really use an application because it's from my PC.
If I understand well, there is probably no solution without degrading data ...

 

[Rudiger]

Oh, and I use foobar. Is this good ?
(Edit : there is a preamp mode)
 
http://eolindel.free.fr/foobar0.9/Replaygain.php

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudiger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Yes it is the NAD Dac module on the C356BEE (which is very good).

I want to do this because I have very little play with the volume knob, I never exceeds the position at 7:30 o'clock.

 

What is the C356BEE driving, and from what? Its preamp or amplifier? The DAC outputs ~2v to the preamp stage, so unless they're lying and using well over 2volts, the DAC is not the problem. Even the gain on the amp isn't one of the first things I'd look into considering it's not exactly as much of a problem as with headphones. What's more likely the problem are your digital audio files, and if you're also streaming, well, the problem is that nearly every album now have been deployed or are being mustered in studios to fight in the Loudness Wars. That's the reason why I suggested Replay Gain.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudiger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I can not really use an application because it's from my PC.

 

O...K...so you don't use any application to play it from your PC? You just pop a CD into the drive and it autoplays without Windows opening some kind of application? 

Or are you thinking that "apps" only applies to mobile devices and not fullsize PCs? Because "apps" is just an umbrella term nowadays but that includes all sorts of programs. It was just trendier to use the term application so you can say "AppStore" rather than say "ProgStore," since the latter sounds like the kind of place where you'd get Dream Theater and Peter Gabriel merchandise.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudiger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

If I understand well, there is probably no solution without degrading data ...

 

If the DAC module output can be routed through any output on the preamp just like any other input, then hook up a Schiit Sys to the tape loop, then run the output of the Sys into the Amp Direct input. The Sys is a passive preamp so it can't increase the voltage of the incoming signal, something that the presumably active preamp in the integrated amp might be doing, effectively making it like the combatants of the Loudness War are now getting the supersoldier serum for an army of Captain Americas and Winter Soldiers. Of course, this presumes that the NAD preamp actually is boosting the signal to begin with, and quite frankly, Replay Gain is free.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudiger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Oh, and I use foobar. Is this good ?

(Edit : there is a preamp mode)

 

http://eolindel.free.fr/foobar0.9/Replaygain.php

 

OK, so your music player app...err, "program" is Foobar. Yes, that works. Just like any Replay Gain plug-in apart from NeutronMP's DSP, it has to scan and apply the correction to the files. It is still technically lossless, you basically just modified the digital file to be at a different level. It doesn't alter anything else like dynamic range, and the reality is, if you have to apply this to a certain album, chances are it doesn't have much in the way of dynamic range anyway. 

 

[Rudiger]

Thanx again.
Sorry I'm not so stupid but I'm french

and yes, in my country the term "app" is is used only for smartphones and tablets.
So I think I'll use this plugin to foobar, the "preamp" option. It seems a great solution if contrary to the volume of foobar this does not alter the data.
 
Have a nice day.
 

 

[Barfoos]

If the data wouldn't be altered, the output signal would be the same and so would the volume.
It really doesn't matter which volume control you use on your PC. Even the Windows mixer works fine (Windows internally uses a 32 bit representation AFAIK).
 
Why exactly don't you want to use your amps volume control? lowering the volume with that volume control, which, I guess, is a potentiometer, not only lowers the signal coming from the pre-amp, but also the noise.
 
Just to be clear: Are we talking about headphones or speakers? Which headphones/speakers are you using?

 

[Rudiger]

 

Barfoos,

 
You mean that using the Replay Gain add-on (preamp option) for lowering the volume has the same effect as decreasing the volume of foobar? It also destroyed a little the data?

I mainly use the volume control of the Nad amp, but the problem is that at 7:30 the sound is already very loud, I would like to have a little more movement !

I mainly use the Nad with speakers, Cabasse bisquine (4 ohm).

 

[Barfoos]

Yes, it will alter the data. The difference between that plugin and other normalisation tools is that it won't change the file on your disk, but rather remember the necessary volume-adjustment for that file and apply it on-the-fly.
 
As far as I understand, you are afraid that lowering the volume on your computer will degrade the sound quality, which is, in theory correct. But since your DAC has a SNR of > 100 dB, loweing the volume on your PC by a few dB won't hurt.
 
With 91 dB/Watt your speakers are relatively efficient, but the fact that your Amp has so much gain that you can barely move the pot with 2 Vrms input is just bad design. I would have expected something better from NAD.